No.6 Discussion Board

West Block => Latch Building => Topic started by: AoYokai on February 19, 2015, 03:13:04 pm

Title: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 19, 2015, 03:13:04 pm
I don't know how much this really counts as analysis, but I noticed that the topic of names repeats itself a lot in No. 6. There are three type of characters as far as I'm concerned:

1. Characters with names: that's a pretty common thing that I have nothing to say about. Notice that the only characters that have actual names are either from No. 6 or originally from around No. 6 (such as Rikiga). Also, Shion's name being a flower is mentioned quite a lot. I wondered for a while about Yoming's name, because (I might have already said it somewhere) it sounds more Chinese than Japanese to me (than again I don't speak Japanese and I barely speak Chinese so...) If anyone knows how Yoming's name was spelled in Japanese or in Chinese that could shed some light on the subject.

2. Characters with no names: there are several characters that are only referred too by their title, such as the man in the lab coat, Nezumi's grandma, Shion's father, Inukashi's mother.... I tend to think that these characters don't have names only because they only took part in the story in other people's thoughts, or in the man in the lab coat's case, because Safu simply didn't know and couldn't ask for his name. Shion's father can also be related to the next category, because he called himself 'Shion' in beyond.

3. Characters that go by nicknames: yes, that's right. Nezumi's turn. Of course, he isn't the only one. I have to admit that I have very little to say about Nezumi's name, mostly because I think he doesn't care about this sort of things. Also, Eve? Such as, the person who ruined paradise by gaining knowledge? I wonder why that sounds famili--oh wait the beginning of No. 6. More in the 'I don't have a name 'cause I don't give a ****' category, Inukashi. Nothing more to add about that. But then we have other characters with pretty interesting concepts.

-Fennec: of all animals Atuko Asano could choose, fennec? And for a pretty important and cruel person, he's taking this sort of offensive nickname kinda easily, don't you think?
-Rou: as I said before only people from No. 6 have actual names. Did he change it in order to get rid of his past? Also, was he really an Elder when he arrived to that place?
-Elyurias: my personal favorite, Elyurias doesn't have a name and in reality, is by itself a being that can't be defined. Pretty cool, in my opinion :)
-No.6: I realize this is not a character *but* why name your cities after numbers? Don't you have more creative things than that? Also, they chose to keep the name after they started rebuilding it, which is pretty strange.



After writing this I realized that Sasori does have a name and he's not from No. 6 but nah you get my point. (Sasori is my favorite underrated character tbh)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Vox on February 19, 2015, 04:05:33 pm
Oh, I'm pretty sure that listenforthelove did a kanji analysis of people's names. I think it's relevant to this topic, so I wanted to link it, but I can't bloody well find it. @listenforthelove, help ;A;
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 19, 2015, 04:09:41 pm
EDIT: I was just gonna post this when I saw @Vox's comment, haha. See below for the link!


Ahh, thanks for starting this topic, @Aoyokai! Names in No. 6 are very interesting~

I hope it's okay if I comment on some points you raised there, since I researched most names in No. 6 a while ago. (Here's the post (http://listenforthelove.tumblr.com/post/84029734130/no-6-character-names-analysis) in case you're interested; it's mostly about meanings.)


In Yoming's case: the spelling of his name is a translator's choice on 9th avenue's part. If you use the Hepburn system, you would spell his name as Ymin with a long O sound (this is also the writing the English manga adopts, though they shorten it to Yomin). His name uses kanji: 楊眠. Not entirely sure where that -ng choice came from, but there you go.

Sasori's name is most likely a nickname, since it means 'Scorpion' and that's definitely the air he gives off; his character model resembles a scorpion too (presumably Rou named him and he likes to name people after animals: case in point, Nezumi. Funnily enough, they left 'Sasori' in the English manga, though they translated Nezumi and Inukashi... hm, I wonder if they missed it or if they consciously tried to get away with it and succeeded. Apparently 'Rat' was demanded on Kodansha Japan's side).

Elyurias is, I'm pretty sure, just as nonsensical in Japanese as it is in English. Which makes sense since it's an invented name, but it's strange it doesn't seem to have a deeper meaning whatsoever. (Unless someone has an idea! It does sound very close to SOMEthing to me, but I can't figure out what.) But yeah, it's not her real name anyway - which is just as well. That which we call a rose, by any other name etc ;)

I think the idea of numbering the cities was to make them as equal as possible - though of course numbering already includes some kind of hierarchy, so there's that. I think it was stated they kept the name of No. 6 for now since that was easiest? But it's been a while since I reread Beyond, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're absolutely right, only the people in No. 6 have 'proper' names, or at least names with kanji (Karan and Riko in the West Block have their names spelled in katakana, which has no meaning other than pronunciation). And most names seem to relate to plants and nature somehow, it's very interesting.


I find it funny Asano picked a fennec fox of all animals with large ears, haha. They're so cute! Maybe it's a 'don't judge by appearance' kind of thing. I assume he has a long standing friendship with the man in the lab coat and that that's why he takes the nickname from him and no-one else. But it's still curious no-one seems to know the Mayor's name or that he doesn't have some kind of title other than Mayor.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Weisel on February 19, 2015, 04:12:12 pm
I think no one could agree on a new name for the city in Beyond, so they just stuck with No.6 for the time being.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Vox on February 19, 2015, 04:13:58 pm
This is somewhat off track, but I really liked The Sun In Jericho's renaming of No. 6 to Jericho. That was just a really good fic. And I think Asano Atsuko would appreciate the Biblical reference.

One time I tried to start a Nezumi/Inukashi naming contest, but no one was interested. What a tragedy.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Weisel on February 19, 2015, 04:33:24 pm
@Vox Nezumi's real name is Jessica. End of story.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 19, 2015, 04:52:10 pm
Quote
@Vox Nezumi's real name is Jessica. End of story.

Oh god o.o

Ah...I've read a fanfiction (I think it's called "hands of time" or something like that) where the author called Nezumi "Niyol".
Somehow I liked that. X'D I guess it would be something like that... Something melodic and uncommon and elegant.

As for No. 6's name... I guess they had better things to do than renaming it. I mean, what's in a name? Nezumi taught Shion that names are not important... just like Nezumi is Nezumi.
And No. 6 is No. 6... it's not the name that sucked and made it evil, it were the people.
In the end, changing the name doesn't change the city at all. You have to work hard to accomplish that. (And it would also suck when people in other cities want to sent packages and letters to people in No. 6 X'D)

Edit: Btw... "Yoming" is "Yomin" in the German version. ^^ I was also confused about his name in the 9th avenue translation, since ming sounds Chinsese indeed.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 19, 2015, 04:59:09 pm
Edit: Btw... "Yoming" is "Yomin" in the German version. ^^ I was also confused about his name in the 9th avenue translation, since ming sounds Chinsese indeed.

Yeah, so did the English manga... I'm still not sure why 9th avenue decided to go with Yoming. It kinda does sound Chinese, maybe they wanted to emphasize that? Oh well.

-checks post above- oh hang on, I'm just repeating myself here, oops.

But yeah, I suppose no-one really dares to name Nezumi XD Niyol sounds pretty cool though, and I guess it sounds close enough to Nezumi not to sound too jarringly different?
(I am severely disappointed Nezumi didn't quote 'a rose by any other name' to Shion when he asked for his real name, by the way. Come on Nezumi, Shakespeare! Oh well I'll just stuff it in my fic then. Your loss, Nezumi.)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Weisel on February 19, 2015, 05:00:20 pm
I had to look it up, but what a perfect name. Niyol means "wind." Of course.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 20, 2015, 05:35:48 am
Oh...so it's really fitting! o.o I come to like it more and more. X'D
And it doesn't sound awkward. XD

Hmm...and for Inukashi.
Somehow I'd choose an African name, since Inukashi is tanned. And I think that their ancestors probably came from another city state in the south.
There are some names you can use for males and females.
I like the name Imani... it also sounds a bit Japanese and you can write it in Katakana easily.
It's for f & m  and means "faith" in Swahili and  it's of Arabic origin. 




Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Vox on February 20, 2015, 09:45:56 am
Oh, Imani is a great name! I love it!
I think Niyol is okay, but I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Nezumi Jessica is just really hard to name.

Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 20, 2015, 10:44:41 am
Hmm...this webpage (http://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Niyol) says:
approx English pronunciation for Niyol: N as in "knee (N.IY)" ; AH as in "mud (M.AH.D)" ; Y as in "you (Y.UW)" ; AA as in "odd (AA.D)" ; L as in "lay (L.EY)"
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 20, 2015, 12:04:12 pm
I'm kinda reading this secretly in the middle of class so I'll read everything properly again in a few hours and answer it, but I really wanted to comment on @Vox's reference to Jericho. It's kinda of a weird name to choose, don't you think? Been a while since I studied the Hebrew Bible, but if I remember correctly, after being completely destroyed it was cursed so that whoever rebuilds it will have his eldest die at the beginning of the building process, and his youngest at the end of it. It did happen to someone in the end, btw. Not the most fun city in the Bible.... Wouldn't want to name my city after Jericho ^^
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Vox on February 20, 2015, 03:33:25 pm
@AoYokai actually, that's why I'm interested in it. I want to know why the author of the fic chose it. Like, is there some reference going on that I don't understand? And it sounds nice. I mean, it's a nice word. welp, it's good that shion and nezumi can't make kids anyway
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 21, 2015, 04:59:25 am
Quote
welp, it's good that shion and nezumi can't make kids anyway

WHUS? (;_;) Why do you say something so horrible?

(http://media.tumblr.com/6ae31db4ed18d8c8f1c83412932b8034/tumblr_inline_n3zi5c2AoE1styxai.jpg)

Just kiddin'! I know the joke gets old... but well... I like Mao. XD I should draw another Mao doujin...but I don't have any ideas... I'm just so exhausted. >,<

Ah... concerning Jericho... did you try and ask the author? ^^ I mean there should be a possibility to contact them when the story is still online.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Vox on February 21, 2015, 08:18:07 am
@Ahiku I meant it's a good thing they can't have kids because they're rebuilding a city called Jericho. So if what AoYokai said is right, they're doomed to lose their firstborn and lastborn children for doing so. That would be terrible. No kids is better than dead kids xD

Also, I probably should ask the author... I'll see if I can contact them. :3
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 21, 2015, 10:04:52 am
@Vox
(._.) Ah, I see.......gomen!
Then don't call your city Jericho and rather make babies, NezuShi! >,<
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 21, 2015, 11:47:49 am
So, I'm going to reply by the order I read so it might sound weird.

@listenforthelove oh, if it's youmin that makes more sense... also (I don't know if there's anyone who speaks Chinese here, if you do excuse my very limited knowledge, American schools are not very good at teaching languages) for youming the only word *I* know in Chinese that would fit would be 有名, which is famous. And if Sasori means scorpion, than he's like Nezumi yay my theory was saved :D
I know that they didn't rename the city because it was easier, but rebuilding the city in general is a hard thing so I don't think that renaming the city is that much of an effort in comparison...
i had a weird dream with elephants in cages and they had huge eyes they were pitch black and it wasn't cute it was terrifying also it was somehow within ffx don't question my dreams

Anyway, I said it before and I'll say it again- my personal headcanon is that Forest People didn't have names at all.

@Vox you said on tumblr that you had Persian accent right (tumblr is blocked on school wifi and I didn't have time to log in at home yet sorry for not replying) does that mean that you speak Farsi? 'cause that would make it easier for me to explain how Jericho doesn't sound cool at all in my opinion, it's actually a pretty ugly name for listeners that don't have the same sounds as Semitic and Indo-Eurpoean languages have. German is Indo-European too, so @Ahiku and @lawlya and whoever else is from Germany should be able to understand it... Anyway the pronunciation is 'Yericho', the ch being that throaty sound that I can't explain with English letters, it's like h I guess but not really? German has some type of that, too. It sounds like something is stuck in your throat.

Yes that was talented attempt to explain language. I'll look into the origin of the name some more...

EDIT: Yericho comes from the word 'Yareach' in Hebrew (ירח) which means moon. It was called that because the people who lived there worshiped the good of the moon in the Canaanite religion. I doubt that the author of that fic went that far to research this, though ^^
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 21, 2015, 11:57:25 am
@AoYokai
Yeah, this "Ch" sound is...like getting rid of something in your throat.

It's some kind of raspy sound in the back of the throat.

Well, you can listen to the German pronounciation of Jericho here:
http://www.dict.cc/?s=jericho
You just have to click on the little audio button... o.o
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 21, 2015, 01:09:00 pm
I already talked about it but I did write a lot so you might have missed it: first, was Rou an Elder when he came to the underground city place?

Second, many people talk about Eve's name in relation to the Bible, especially with Shion's snake scar, but what about the rest of The Fall of Man? You know what, since this analysis is not that related to the names, I think I'll open a separate analysis thread for that. It'll be up in a moment....
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 21, 2015, 01:18:43 pm
@Aoyokai: I did read your comment on Rou being an Elder yes or no, but I had no answer to it... it sounds to me more like a title he built for himself as he rose to the 'leader' of sorts of the Underground people, but idk. He does seem to like naming people, but would he name himself Elder? That's more of a status than a nickname, I'd think... hm.

Actually, I read the novels first once I really got into No. 6, and it completely went over my head that Eve was supposed to be the Biblical name (but then again, I never realized Nezumi might be crossdressing as Eve until I saw the anime...) - I kind of thought it was Eve as in evening, because Nezumi is all about light and darkness, so that made sense to me. I don't know. I'm too into Kingdom Hearts at the same time so I didn't come into that objectively XD;

But looking forward to that new thread of yours!
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 21, 2015, 01:30:58 pm
That might be, but I still think it's odd. I'm probably thinking too much into it ^^"

It is confusing, but for the love of elyurias don't get me started about the translation of the Bible, especially names. Eve is one of the absolutely worst translations in the entire thing, because whoever decided to call her that literally kept only once ****ing letter from her whole name. Letter. Not a vowel. A stinking letter. Her name is Hava, the h being, again, that weird ch something is stuck in my throat sounds.

Edit: btw @Ahiku yeah the weight placement is kinda different but the German version sounds a lot like it should ^^
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 21, 2015, 03:13:31 pm
(I just realized that I misread the message @Vox send me and thought you said Persian instead of Parisian I'm stupid ignore the part where I asked if you speak Farsi...)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Meopat on February 21, 2015, 08:36:20 pm
@AoYokai and @listenforthelove, regarding Rou, I think there's a portion of the novel where Rou's giving his backstory and he mentions that he's years older than Karan but they were childhood friends. So I don't think he's /actually/ old, he just has a lot of authority. (and maybe he looks old too LOL)

Karan and I were childhood friends. I was much older than her, but we often played together. (Vol 6 Ch 5)

I can't imagine being 10 years older and still being able to call that childhood friends. :d but say he's 16, and she's 6 and they're childhood friends. In the "present" time, after Shion and Karan move to Lost Town, she's like, what, 40 at most? (since her son is 16.) That would only put Rou at maybe around 50. And the Mao Massacre happened 12 years before "present" time, so he would've been like about around his 40s. I don't know if you'd call a 40 year old as being in his elderly years, but..  the novel did make him sound really old, so.

Back to the topic of names, I love that the No.6 citizens all had kanji in their names!! That brings a much broader perspective of the education system between West Block and No.6 - like the stark different between the two. and also that most of the names had a plant-motif!! That's definitely something that doesn't translate well into English.

I like the idea that the Forest People didn't have names! or maybe if they did, it'd be very much related to nature. I always humored the idea that Nezumi's real name is Maus just because it sounds like Mouse. ;__;
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 21, 2015, 09:00:52 pm
@Meopat, now that you mention Rou's age, I think it makes more sense ^^ maybe he called himself Elder because he got white hair?
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 22, 2015, 05:45:01 am
Quote
I always humored the idea that Nezumi's real name is Maus just because it sounds like Mouse.

Ah, do you speak German? :D Maus is the German word for mouse. Yeah, it sounds pretty similar.

@AoYokai
Hm...maybe he's just one of the oldest persons in the underground cave. Otherwise I'd say he's middle-aged when he's circa 50 years old.
I don't think that really old people could live in the underground realm... and how did they get there? I guess some of them survived... they had to climb the stone wall like Nezumi did when he was a child. I could imagine that Rou is one of the oldest, and "Rou" is a pretty short name.
He told Shion that names are not important. He's wise and has white hair... so people could assume he's old... like an old sage.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 22, 2015, 11:41:32 am
How would Rou climb with his legs though? ???
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 22, 2015, 01:35:02 pm
@AoYokai: From what I recall, the leaders from No. 6 threw him in there, figured 'eh well, it's a natural prison' and just left him there and forgot about him. Since the Correctional Facility was still being built, that was the easiest way to get rid of him. From volume 6, quotes from 9th-avenue (http://9th-ave.blogspot.nl/p/no-6.html)'s translation:

Quote
I managed to hang on by a thread, losing my legs in exchange, and was housed in the underground caves. And so they cast me off.

@Ahiku: also from volume 6:

Quote
"Nezumi, these people..."
"Who do you think they are?"
"Oh―survivors. They must be people like us, who've managed to escape the execution grounds."
"Wrong." Nezumi shook his head. It was a languid gesture, unusual for him. "They've lived here way before that."

Shion reasons further from there that they must have adapted to life underground, so apparently those people have been there longer than the escaped to-be-prisoner.
Which makes it even stranger that they'd call Rou the Elder... Did he manage to earn the respect of those that live there? I think he managed to get food and stuff from No. 6 by the small thread he still had there, right? I can't quite find that right now, but still.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Meopat on February 22, 2015, 05:22:57 pm
@Ahiku: oh man! I wish I was cool enough to speak German! But it was just a really good coincidence. orz

@listenforthelove: that's what I suspected too! That Rou was just a really cool dude who gained the respect of the aboriginals through tasty No.6 food. XD;

Have you guys ever looked up Shion's name? :0 there's always so many references to asters being the flower of remembrance in the Japanese language of flowers. (sob) but the more interesting factor was that asters used to be used to ward off snakes? http://www.list-of-birthstones.com/birth%20flowers/Aster%20birth%20flowers.html (http://www.list-of-birthstones.com/birth%20flowers/Aster%20birth%20flowers.html)

Do you think Asano knew that or was that all a huge coincidence? Do you think other characters like Safu and Rikiga had such carefully chosen names? I still can't really figure out the significance of Safu's name.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 22, 2015, 05:51:56 pm
@Meopat: oh, I didn't know about the snake thing with the aster! Whoa, that's a really nice coincidence (if it is a coincidence, I have no idea how much research Asano put in meanings of names). I must say my immediate association with aster is stars, so I always thought that was where the saying 'the wandering star and the stagnant one' and the starry-themed ED song came from... not sure if that's right, though. But yeah, the memory thing, haha sob ;;;

For Rikiga, I assume his name was picked for its kanji strength + river because of his built, and eh... I don't know if it's coincidence, but Karan's name is written with the kanji for fire, and fire and water, y'know ;) but that was my own reasoning.

I have no idea what the significance of Safu's name could be, though it's very possible I'm overlooking something here. It doesn't sound like a very common Japanese name to me at any rate, despite being written in kanji, but that's all I can say. It's interesting that most other names in No. 6 have to do with plants, and Safu's kanji are for sand and cloth or to spread out (depending if you read it as a noun or a verb). Sounds more like a way that plants can be grown to me? But that's probably stretching it.

What still amuses me as I'm going through the list of names is Lili's name. It's a flower in English of course, but the kanji are the kanji for (white) jasmine twice. Super duper flowery name in two languages!
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Curiousscarletteyes on February 23, 2015, 09:18:25 am
Quote
Elyurias is, I'm pretty sure, just as nonsensical in Japanese as it is in English. Which makes sense since it's an invented name, but it's strange it doesn't seem to have a deeper meaning whatsoever.

*whispers* Elyurias is probably named after Elysium in Greek Mythology.

There are the Elysium fields where supposedly heroes went when the Gods considered making them immortal owo. Elysium itself is the place where it happens. It's also a place for the blessed and where people who were righteous can live happy lives. There are different parts to Hades like Tartarus which would probably represent the Correctional Facility since they literally called it hell and then theres Elysium which hey, sounds like Elyurias which is who the people in No.6 were trying to contain.

Of course, it could all be a coincidence. Buuuttttttttt. . .
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 23, 2015, 12:02:13 pm
@Curiousscarletteyes: Hm, I personally feel they sound too little alike (Eriuriasu versus Eeryushion in Japanese) for that to be on purpose, but maybe Asano did consciously pick the name to sound reminiscent of Elysium/Elysion? We do have Chronos or Kronos in No. 6 for the Greek mythology, though there's also Lost Town which is also Lost Town in Japanese, so it's - kind of a mess language wise to begin with, hohum.
Didn't Rou name Elyurias? Maybe some kind of animal then, since that's apparently his theme? XD
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Meopat on February 24, 2015, 05:43:16 am
@listenforthelove: I decided to look up Safu's name in Japanese to see what it'd come up with. and Google tells me that it's sort of an archaic name that gives an old feeling (maybe something akin to 'Agatha' in the English language) but also that whoever has this name is predicted to be a "strong, independent woman" who is generally super responsible in a family. XDD (http://coreblog.org/naming/girls/p_6c995e03.html (http://coreblog.org/naming/girls/p_6c995e03.html)) Maybe Asano-sensei wasn't actually going for plant-people-names in No.6, but just by what she liked. :[ .. considering how Lili's friend, Ei, also had a non-leafy name.

@Curiousscarletteyes: I love that hypothesis! Maybe Rou, as a researcher of the time, wanted to create this Utopian No.6 and desired "Elysium" so he hoped his fascination with this goddess-like being will also bring about great happiness and cookies?

I never quite understood the naming sense of the regions of No.6 either (like, randomly Chronos, then Lost Town?? wut).
but I'd be thrilled to think that she snagged a bit of it from Greek Mythology.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 24, 2015, 07:16:08 am
@Meopat: thanks for the link, that's very interesting! It looks like it's fortune-telling based on the number of strokes in the kanji, so I'm not sure in how far it says something about the meaning of the name itself, but the meaning for a name with 7 + 5 = 12 strokes according to that link is: "A strongly independent spirit. Strong during crises. Becomes the person in charge in the family/household. A man is loved by the parents of the bride; a woman marries an oldest son."
Though you usually have to use both first and last name for these, that does fit Safu quite a bit. It's just as possible Asano picked names based on these fortune tellings instead of meaning of the kanji themselves.

I still think that too many of the characters have leafy names for it to be a coincidence, also taking the themes of the story into account - though as you said, Ei's name doesn't and a few others also don't, so it's not entirely consistent. Lili is probably intentionally leafy if anything, though. That's hard to miss in either Japanese or English.

No. 6 has rather typical names to begin with, actually. Aside from Shion and the names that are nicknames, I haven't heard of most of them outside of No. 6, but then again, it's very possible my world view is limited there. Either way, that's why I tend to focus on the kanji; I'm tempted to think there was a reason Asano picked these names with these writings specifically.


I wonder if the place names have something to do with status, like how Chronos/Kronos sounds super sophisticated because ohhh Greek? Much like how important buildings in our world have been built in the likeness of ancient Greek architecture? But then the Moon Drop is Tsuki no Shizuku again, so it's back to Japanese. Ehhhh.
Speaking of, I wonder why it's called Moon Drop to begin with?
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on February 24, 2015, 09:39:16 am
Hm...I also thought the place names have something to do with hierarchy and status.

Chronos - Greek, aristocratic, high-born, wealthy, elite

Tsuki no Shizuku - administration center, for the entire city...including LT and Chrons, that's why they could use the language everyone is able to understand. In that case Japanse... or in the German version, it's German...
Well, it's at least some kind of fancy name.
@listenforthelove what about the forest park? Is it English or Japanese in the original version?

Lost Town - underclass, different from the rest, maybe that's why they use another language. Well, and English is the most common language in the world, maybe even in the No. 6 universe. I could imagine that they city states conduct negotiagtions in English as well. (I don't think they are all able to understand Japanese.)
But Lost Town is at least still a part of the city and safe.

West Block/South Block/East Block - downgrading, underclass, or even the dregs of society, garbage dump, or service sector, farming and agriculture for the city.
The names are very common and not very individuell. Places called like that could be everywhere in the world. So even the names are kinda downgrading. They serve the city.

Otherwise... English should be important and languages are rather something for the elite, so I guess it would make more sense to use English terms for important places and Japanese names for blocks. Whatever... 西の区画 nishi no kukaku for West Block (I'm pretty sure that's not correct! Haha XD)

Ah... Moondrop is also a plant, at least in English.
http://www.exoticangel.com/plant-library/species/schefflera/item/538-moondrop
It's a poisonous plant. 

I don't think it's called tsuki no shizuku in Japanese. o.o

Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 24, 2015, 10:23:04 am
@Ahiku: Forest Park is Japanese: Shinrin kouen, but it's in the dictionary, so it might just be the generic name rather than a given one (e.g. the same as capitalizing City). West Block is Nishi burokku, so that's a mix, except burokku is commonly used in Japanese anyway to refer to a block of houses etc, so it might be considered Japanese (loan word) instead of English.
I forgot about one - Correctional Facility is also Japanese: kyousei shisetsu.

... I really have no idea, haha. Especially Lost Town all of a sudden. Maybe it just sounds fancy? Like 'let's pretend it's nice and give it a catchy English name so it sounds better'? But yeah, it'd make sense that Moon Drop is in the language everyone understands, good one.
Hmm, I guess it does make sense then. Except Lost Town. Still, eh, Lost on that XD;


Ohh, I had no idea moondrop was a kind of plant! It's indeed named differently in Japanese if wiki is to be trusted, but hey, more leafy things! ;) (I have no idea what the image of a moon drop would be though... I mean, a drop that came from the moon? The building looks like a beehive for all the obvious reasons, I really have no idea why they'd call it moon drop. Maybe eerie sounds = midnight = moon? Stretch-stretch-stretch?)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Weisel on February 24, 2015, 12:35:00 pm
My guess is that it's called the Moondrop because it's really tall like it's a drop of the sky... sort of... but then the actual meaning behind it was after the poisonous plant to fit its place in the story.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 24, 2015, 02:30:11 pm
@listenforthelove just another comment about Lili's name (another attempt to be knowledgeable in Chinese please if anyone speaks Chinese tell me cause I feel like I'm making mistakes), in Chinese the name Lili (丽丽) is made out of, well, twice the character 'li' that means pretty.

@Curiousscarleteyes speaking of Greek Mythology, Chronos? At first I thought it meant Cronus but turns out they're pretty similar anyways...

Well the whole moon thing connects us to Jericho again, doesn't it?
 
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 24, 2015, 03:16:36 pm
@Weisel: ah, good point! I'd forgotten No. 6 doesn't have many tall buildings and that the Moon Drop towers over them all. That's probably it~

@AoYokai: ah, that's so sweet with Lili in Chinese! 'Pretty pretty'~

re: Chronos vs Kronos/Cronus: both are possible, since in Japanese the part of the city is called Kuronosu. So theoretically (and mythology wise I do feel it fits a bit better), Kronos/Cronus is just as valid, though the official translations went with Chronos I think.
Iiiif that's what you meant of course, otherwise apologies for cutting in!
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 24, 2015, 03:24:33 pm
It totally is! But if it's Cronus, that's a weird choice, no? Chronos would make a little more sense... (I hope everyone understand the mythological explanation to that claim cause I'd feel stupid to explain it if everyone already knows...)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 25, 2015, 03:20:42 am
@AoYokai: hmm, why Chronos? Maybe I'm getting rusty here, but I only know of Chronos as the personification of time - other attributes I know associated with him seem to come from Cronus/Saturn. Or wait, are you talking about the serpents around the world egg?
(Actually, I had to look the latter up online since none of my reference books mention it, so please do explain! I'm very interested in mythology and I'm already disappointed in myself for not knowing this oTL) 
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Curiousscarletteyes on February 25, 2015, 02:21:05 pm
Happiness and Cookies. XD I don't quite think that's what he was aiming for.

But Kronos (Chronos, Chronus: there's so many different spellings OTL) and Rhea were children of Gaia and Uranus also known as the earth and sky. Kronos overthrew his father because he wanted power and married Rhea (who's his sister). Kronos was super paranoid when Rhea had her babies because there was a prophecy that his children would overthrow him in the same way or something (It's been a while. I'm rusty xD) and so he swallowed all of his children. Rhea wasn't too happy about this so when she had Zeus, she tricked Kronos and gave him a rock to swallow instead. So long story short, Zeus defeated his father, freed his siblings (all the Greek Gods) and threw both his father and the titans into Tartarus (deepest part of hell).

But hey I also just found something really interesting that I didn't know: "Many human generations later, Zeus released Kronos and his brothers from this prison, and made the old Titan king of the Elysian Islands, home of the blessed dead. "

So. . . Chronos is the place for the people who are the elites. . .and if Elyurias was named after Elysium. . .maybe these were the people who were going to help No.6 reach that goal.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 25, 2015, 03:12:52 pm
@Curiousscarletteyes: okay now I'm confused. I thought @AoYokai meant Chronos over Cronus/Kronos, with Chronos being the personification of time and part of some other myths, though he got likened to Cronus/Kronos possibly because of the similar names - but was there a difference intended between Chronos and Cronus/Kronos or are we just talking about one and the same deity now and is it just about spelling? ???

But that is very interesting indeed, I had no idea Zeus freed Kronos in the end. That sounds - very generous for Zeus, haha. But that ties in nicely~
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Curiousscarletteyes on February 25, 2015, 04:51:34 pm
@listenforthelove: AoYokai might have meant that. xD I was unaware until this thread hat he's also the personification of time. So there definitely could be the difference between the both of them. Oops. But Kronos' name is also spelled three different ways >_<
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Meopat on February 26, 2015, 03:35:06 am
@listenforthelove: Thank you for explaining that page to me!! :d I'm half-literate in Japanese so I tend to space out and misinterpret things. You're also quite right in that Asano used very particular names for these characters. (Getsuyaku?! Really!?) We could try and interpret why she chose each kanji for each of the No.6-residential characters, but something about how rushed Vol 9 was also tells me that it's possible she never fully brought out the characters' full potentials. :C so it feels like we'll never know why Getsuyaku was named Moon-Medicine T_T

@Ahiku: So the Moon Drop is a flower and we have a bunch of killer bees in this story. XD IS THIS HAPPENING.
But omg, it totally makes sense for the Blocks to just be referred to as North, East, South, West just to be degrading. :c
The origins of Lost Town seems to be lost on us. I wish the interview with her in the Completed Guidebook also mentioned name origins. T_T ... but if it did, we wouldn't be having all these fascinating conversations :d

@Curiousscarletteyes: That's so interesting that Kronos was king of the Elysian Isles! I really wonder if it was named "Kuronosu" just to embody both Father Time and the Titan Kronus. Father Time, I quote Wiki, was said to have a "serpentine shape." (Though I'm not really sure what that implies? Since all the statues of him depict a very human shape. Maybe it's considered serpentine because he is always sitting and that makes an S shape??) and I feel with this background knowledge about the Titan Kronus that the name (Kuronosu) really fits for the elite members who'll bring No.6 to prosperity.

and now, this is totally wild and partially nonsensical fangirl theorizing, but suppose Chronos is the serpent of the No.6 Moondrop / flower. Asters are meant to ward snakes away. (only after you burn them, but that can be up for interpretation) doesn't this essentially set the stage for Shion being vital in overthrowing No.6? Feels like a complete stretch, but it's a fun theory. (of course, it also doesn't clue in on why Nezumi is Nezumi aside from his majestic grey eyes. D: )
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on February 26, 2015, 04:07:10 am
But no that makes perfectly sense. Wasn't Shion "burned" when No.6 declared him a criminal? I mean he first lost his elite status and then his rights and citizenship altogether.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: AoYokai on February 26, 2015, 02:07:54 pm
So, I don't know anything about Chronos I just googled it and found out it wasn't the same as Cronus. Cronus kinda have a bad connotation, so that's why I was wandering about it...

I've thinking about this whole self-fulfilling prophecy idea for a while now, sadly I'm not very focus right now and can't put it to words OTL
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on February 27, 2015, 07:13:38 am
@Meopat: yeah, it's a shame... so many characters just have no name at all, even quite important ones (though that might have been on purpose). Well, the kanji for medicine does have the radical for 'grass' in it, indicating a leafy origin, so I guess that's where it might come from re: Getsuyaku... But I've never ever heard that name before and even the English manga spelled it wrong once, possibly because it's so uncommon XD;

Japanese really doesn't differentiate between Chronos and Kronos; I'm guessing they always need to explain which one they're talking about when discussing mythology, because it literally is Kuronosu in both cases, not just in No. 6. I can only find that 'serpentine shape' thing on wiki and on the website that wiki copied it from, so I have no idea how accurate that is... so many clashing sources for mythology, and apparently even in antiquity they were already confusing the two deities because of the similar names.


@AoYokai: ah, I see! Quite curious to your idea about the self-fulfilling prophecy, so if you ever feel like it, please share?


I personally think Cronus/Kronos (can I just pick Kronos, it's what we Dutchies use XD) fits well because A) overthrew his father/predecessor, with help of Mother Earth if you want to tie that in, and B) got overthrown himself by the very people it tried to oppress/eat to avoid that from happening. I'm pretty sure his wife Rhea sought help from Gaia/Mother Earth for that too, actually.
... Would the birth of Aphrodite fit in there somewhere, I wonder. Because she was born when Kronos chopped off his dad's, eh, crown jewels and tossed them in the sea XD;

Oh, something else I just realized: in Roman mythology, their god Saturn was merged with the deity Kronos. Saturn was more benevolent than Kronos, but more interestingly, he was associated with agriculture among other things (his scythe later became part of the imagery of Father Time partly because of the Chronos/Kronos confusion, apparently, but that as an aside). In Japanese, the planet Saturn is dosei, which means 'earth/soil star' (and Satur-day is Do-youbi, earth/soil day).
... that probably wasn't super relevant, but hey earthy words!

I'll go shut up now about mythology how about that. Oops.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 05, 2015, 04:35:22 am
Ok, I revive this thread now~

I just thought that "Nozomi" (望) would be a cute name for Nezumi. It's a pretty feminine name but I've also found some guys with that name on wikipedia, ithe sound is super similar to Nezumi and it means hope. XD Isn't that cute?

I plan on writing a childhood friends AU in which Karan and Nezumi's mom are friends and neighbors and the boys grow up together... I play with the thought of calling him Nozomi and Nezumi is his nickname, because mini Shion can't say his name properly... Hmmmm~ :D

Edit: Just imagine Nezumi coming back and telling Shion his name, since he promised him to tell him his name one day and he said that he'd never break a promise.
Nezumi: "Ah, btw. my real name is Nozomi."
Shion: (.____.)
Nezumi: o.o What?
Shion: There's barely any difference.
Nezumi: Well, whatever. You wanted to know my name. Besides, I'm still taller than you.
Shion: There's barely any difference.
Nezumi: Coming back was definitely worth it. You're charming and eloquent as ever, Your Majesty.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on August 05, 2015, 04:45:50 am
Aww, it's such a cute idea to give Nezumi his nickname because Shion just can't pronounce his name xD
It would even go along with speech development of children. Apparently they learn a, e and i first and the other two vowels later so it would make sense that little Shion just can't pronounce the o in Nozomi and makes it an e.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 05, 2015, 05:17:55 am
Oh, that's interesting. o.o I didn't know that. ^^ I thought he's gonna say "Nechumi" when he's still small and Karan and Nezumama like it and call him Nezumi. X'D Since he's so cute and looks like a little mouse. Could also be great to make jokes later, when someone is telling Nezumi Nozomi and people are like. "Nozomi? Who's that?" - "That's my name, you jerk. Did you really think my parents named me "rat"?"
The same happened with some of my friends, some people didn't even know their real names.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: listenforthelove on August 05, 2015, 06:11:06 am
Oh my god @Ahiku that is adorable! (Hm, my kanji add-on informs me that the kanji on its own without 'mi' behind it can also mean full moon. Make of that what you will. Nocturnal and all XD) And meh, Shion is technically a girl's name too so psh Nozomi can totally work.
And Ne'chu'mi omigosh. Mouse sounds and kisses! XD
... must say though, I still associate Nozomi with the shinkansen. GOOD, THE FASTER HE CAN RETURN TO SHION.

@lawlya: oh, that's interesting, I didn't know that! Is that universal or does it depend on the language? Is that a thing that even depends on the language or am I spewing nonsense again...
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on August 05, 2015, 06:18:05 am
Oh my god, the z to ch is definitely something to consider; just too cute >w<

@listenforthelove: That's actually a pretty good question but I don't know ^^" I just got the information from my best friend's lecture who's studying logopedics. I can ask her about further intel. Especially since said lecture didn't mention the other two vowels with a single word o.o (But I'd say vowels are kinda universal. Gotta be more difficult with the consonants; but there's also a distinct chronology to those. Although I'd say her lecture focus on the German language ^^)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 05, 2015, 02:41:22 pm
@listenforthelove
Full moon is also cute. *-* Both is cute XD Haha... God, I have to admit, I really love that name now and I'll totally go for it. X'D Okay, it's not "Mao" enough for canon Nezumi, but I think it's a good name for an AU.

Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on August 06, 2015, 10:24:54 am
Okay, as promised, further information on the topic from friend who even wrote an essay about this :)

Children learn the vowel "a" first because they just have to open their mouth and let their voice do the rest.
After that comes the "i" because it's the vowel with the furthest contrast to "a".
Next is either "u" or "e"; that's individual.
Again, there wasn't a mention of "o" but I'd guess it's one of the last. German "", "" and "" follow much later.

The order is only dependent on the mothertongue if there are some of the vowels missing in the language altogether; they just aren't learned then.
Furthermore, children have a preference for their mothertongue when learning how to speak.
(Do you want all the phases of how babies learn to speak too? I guess it's not that relevant, huh?)

Up until year 3 it's perfectly fine to have problems with "s" and "sch" (in English probably "sh").

"z" and "ts" are rather often made into "ch" so it's reasonable that Shion would call little Nozomi Nechumi.

Okay, I'm done xD
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 06, 2015, 03:32:33 pm
Ohhh, thank you o.o This is really interesting. X'D
(God, I always love it when you explain stuff for my work stuff haha. XD Like...how two men could have a baby...for the Baby Mao doujin... or how babies learn to speak XD)
Good to hear that "Nechumi" is not far-fetched at all.

Ah, but what do you think would Nezumi say? I guess Shion is not an easy name to say either. Although I could imagine that Nezumi can say that name pretty early because he's Nezumi.
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on August 06, 2015, 03:50:01 pm
Ah, no problem xD It wasn't even my work; I just translated it kinda horribly.

Well, considering that "sh" is hard to say up to their third year, I'd say he'd probably say "ch" instead just like Shion. Otherwise, it seems to be individual how difficult children find words with "s" and "sh" so you could probably explain that Nezumi can pronounce "Shion" just fine with him just being talented and a few months older (which would probably explain why he'd have no problem with the "o" either).
He could say "Shin" though xD Or something like "Shi-in" or "Shi-an" or whatever when he just decides to purposefully say Shion's name wrong because he can't pronounce it right either way (but like this, no one is gonna guess he just can't pronounce it but rather think he just doesn't want to say it right and that would be very Nezumi - especially if he keeps it up when he finally can say "Shion" but has fun seeing Shion's reaction or something.)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 06, 2015, 04:16:56 pm
Shi-an sounds cute XDD Haha... I guess I won't write thaaat much about them when they are still babies. ^^ (I plan on writing short stories, but they all belong to a big AU... I want to start with Shion's birth and 2-3 baby drabbles and then they'll be older. But I don't really need to be chronological I guess, so I can write a story about baby Nezushi even after I've already written about 14-year old Nezushi, depending on my mood. :3
Maybe Nezumi is not talking at all until he's a year and then his first year is a  perfect "Shion", don't know it yet. Otherwise he's just squeaking... haha XDDD Would also be a good reason to call him Nezumi lol
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: lawlya on August 06, 2015, 04:20:42 pm
Aww, that's just as cute <3

I swear Nezumi would be one of those creepy kids whose first word is a perfectly fluent sentence xD And squeaking, oh my god!

I'm definitely looking forward to it ;)
Title: Re: Names in No. 6
Post by: Ahiku on August 06, 2015, 04:50:34 pm
Quote
I swear Nezumi would be one of those creepy kids whose first word is a perfectly fluent sentence
Yep, that's what I thought XDDD Something like. "Omigod, our little Nozomi won't talk, let's get him to a doctor..." The doctor tries to touch him and 1-year old Nezumi is like: "Blabla, I talked. And now bring me back to Shi-an." X'D