No.6 Discussion Board

West Block => Latch Building => Topic started by: AoYokai on November 09, 2014, 02:05:19 am

Title: No. 6's location
Post by: AoYokai on November 09, 2014, 02:05:19 am
So, I'm writing a fic about Nezumi's travels and it got me thinking: assuming that the No. 6 universe is similar to ours, where do you think No. 6 is? My first guess would be Japan just because... you know, but I really don't think they would choose to build their city in Japan after half of the world dies. Maybe a place with a little more natural resources. Or maybe it is on some island and that's why it's so isolated?

I don't really know much about geography, but No. 6 is in a place that has lots of gold, as Shion's father discovered, so I don't really know if islands can even have gold...? (I don't know I feel stupid I should sleep) It should also be in a place where the forest can be, and the weather is reasonable (???) so I wouldn't guess Russia for example. So I was thinking... China? Somewhere in the Americas? South Africa? I don't know much about the weather in these places so...Oh there's Australia too (I'm looking at a list of the biggest gold-mining countries) here's the list if you wanna look at potential countries: http://www.goldfacts.org/en/economic_impact/countries/
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Ahiku on November 09, 2014, 03:01:48 am
A new fic? Yay! \(*o*)/

Ahhhh, @listenforthelove, @lawlya and I have talked about No. 6's location in the time line thread... I know... pretty off topic lol)

I think it's starting here...  (http://no6.createaforum.com/karan%27s-bakery/timeline-in-no-6-help/?message=1103)

It's quite a lot, so I'm not posting everything here.
Just a little summarization.

I think all of us came to the conclusion that No. 6 could be Tokyo, because of the climatic condistions. Even though they regulate the weather within the city walls, we still have the West Block... hot summers, cold winters (but there's no snow at all, maybe a bit. The ground is frozen. But even if it's not frozen people can freeze to death when they don't have enough food and proper clothes... and when you're used to warm temperatures it can be harsh when you suddenly have to live somewhere else where it is significantly colder.

Hm, I ever thought about gold, but I think Japan had some gold mines, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toi_gold_mine
Ok, it says it WAS a gold mine... and it's in Toi which is not too far from Tokyo (maybe 2-3 hours per train).
Ah, i'm not so much into Beyond at the moment... does Shion's father really know that there's a gold mine around the city or does he think there's gold? o.o 

Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 06:03:49 am
First of all: yess new fic! \o/

Secondly, haha, yes, as @Ahiku said, we went off-topic a bit in the timeline topic and sort of discussed this...

I still maintain that it's very likely No. 6 is in Japan, or even Tokyo, for reasons @Ahiku mentioned. And wasn't No. 6 the most advanced of the cities, technology-wise and so on?

Regarding resources: Chronos uses solar energy, whereas Lost Town uses RDF (Refuse Derived Fuel). Which is... what it says on the tin, haha. Chronos used that too before switching to solar energy. The East and South blocks are used for agriculture and provide most of the vegetables and meat for No. 6. So it became self-sufficient, and doesn't need to rely on oil I suppose. (Though Rikiga's car is old and still uses petroleum/whatever, if memory serves. I think the other cars are electrical?)
And you're right, if it is on an island, it would account for the isolation (and mirror Japan's position in history for a good couple of centuries, actually).

On the other hand... Nezumi says to have walked for half a year by the time he meets Shion's father, so unless he conveniently forgot to mention he had to take a boat at some point - huh?

Oh wow, I totally misread @Ahiku's post  on the Toi mines and thought it read Toi8, oops. XD;
As for Beyond, Shion's father does show Nezumi actual gold:

Quote
“Is this... gold ore?”
“Yes. Listen to me: there are gold deposits in the area around No. 6. I don’t know how large the area is, but I think there’s a considerable amount of gold hidden there.”
“No way.”
“It’s true. I discovered it when I was younger. I might look like this now, but I was once a geologist. We investigated all soil around No. 6, and this was part of the discovery.”
(9th-ave (http://9th-ave.blogspot.ie/2013/03/novel-no-6-beyond-ch-4-b.html))

I don't see why he should be lying about where he got the gold, but yeah, I don't really trust the guy. <<

(Also, I went to Asuka and the Manyo museum this year; the museum is located where Japan's first known mint was. Asuka was the not-really-but-sort-of capital before Nara, which was the capital in the 8th century. So I assume there must be some kinds of metals in Japan to make coins with in the first place, unless they imported it all as early as that? I'm not exactly well-read on the natural occurrences of gold and gold mines, though.)


And there is something else I meant to discuss, maybe in a thread of its own, but it might be relevant here... I always kind of felt Elyurias was like a kami, a Shinto god. I really need to dig up my readings to make a more accurate post on that, but yeah, that does feed into my idea that No. 6 is in Japan.
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Weisel on November 09, 2014, 06:34:36 am
I personally think that No.6 is located somewhere that China used to be. When Shion's discussing the Babylon Treaty in the anime, it shows ruins underwater, and at the mention of most of the world becoming inhabitable, my thought it that nuclear bombs were used in the last war, which could be powerful enough to change the climate itself. So I imagine that the process of global warming was sped up, a significant portion of coastal lands are now underwater, and basically all the islands we know of now are underwater as well. Plus, like we said, Nezumi's only been walking as far as we know.
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 06:50:40 am
@Weisel: ah, good point about the ruins under water, I totally forgot that. The anime did show a bit more about the world than the manga/novels did, didn't it? I mean, we actually saw No. 5 in there and all. China is a good possibility, as it would account for Nezumi only having walked so far (China to Western-Europe would take about half a year I guess?), and depending on where you are in China, I think the climate could be similar to Japan? Perhaps hotter? But yeah if climate changed anyway...

I always kind of assumed nuclear weapons were in fact used in the wars that almost destroyed human kind... I'm not sure if it was explicitly mentioned that it was indeed the case, though, but it would account for a lot of things.

I wonder where the world in No. 6 split off from the world we know (if it's not a completely different/parallel world to begin with, but let's assume not because otherwise they wouldn't mention America explicitly). I mean, Shion was born in 2001 and the Treaty was made and No. 6 was being built before he was born, so at least at the end of the 20th century. Hm. Maybe the 1940s ended a little differently than in our history?

Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: lawlya on November 09, 2014, 10:39:55 am
Oh, I really like the idea of No.6 being in former China. If the coasts are really under water now it would be considerably smaller too. And continental climate (as I recall from my geography lessons in school) is known for hot summers and cold winters (extreme weather) so that would fit too.

I also assumed that they used nuclear weapons though I doubt they could change the climate. But either way, it was described that due to the war, most areas of the world weren't inhabitable for humans anymore and that six places somehow recovered faster. That sound remarkably like nuclear weapons and the contaminated ground they leave behind.

That's an interesting thought ... That World War 2 ended differently than in our history. Or maybe it rather was the cold war that escalated? And again, we're off topic xD
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 11:09:57 am
Haha, sorry for derailing the topic - I guess I was wondering in how much the world looked physically different from our world. I mean, if our worlds were the same until the 1940s, that has more chances of radical changes than if it split off in like, the 1980s. Especially with World War 2 and the Cold War, which could have transformed the Earth's surface pretty dramatically and maybe have wiped certain countries off the map completely. So sort of relevant? Yes? No? Sorry? XD;

But yes, pollution by radioactivity was explicitly mentioned I think, which I guess could also relate to the use of nuclear weapons...

Ok, to get back on topic again: I do think No. 6 is above the equator, at least, so it won't be Australia, South America or South Africa (which @AoYokai mentioned as possibilities). I think snow is mentioned to occur, and well, if Shion's birthday is in September and in the months after that it's getting winter, it should be in the Northern Hemisphere. And far enough above the equator to actually experience different seasons, though that is debatable since No. 6 can control its climate inside the walls. Still, it's pretty cold in the West Block...

Maybe we should pull out a world map and start checking off regions? ;) Maybe also draw an outline of countries that might have sunk. I mean, I know my home country of the Netherlands is below sea level for the most part, and if the sea level rises again due to global warming and there aren't that many people left to take care of the dams...
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: lawlya on November 09, 2014, 11:37:42 am
What we need is either a geography major or an interative map. You know, where you can click on conditions you need and it just erases all the regions and countries that doesn't fit that description? Like 'snow fall at least once a year' or something like that xD God, things that I need I never knew I would ever want ...
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 12:03:53 pm
Well.... (http://mapmaker.education.nationalgeographic.com/?ar_a=1&b=1&ls=000000000000) ;)

Hm, there were mountains in the North of No. 6, right? That helps narrowing things down a bit. Forests and plains can be manmade, mountains, not so much.
I think we can rule out all of South America and most of Africa, and definitely Australia. Countries about the height of Indonesia as well, I suppose... And everything too far up North, at the height of Iceland, considering the amount of day hours and the general cold/snow. Oh, and an area that gets tropical storms, I suppose. That might rule out Europe?

Oh, hang on, from all the way back in volume 1:

Quote
a tropical low pressure-system, or hurricane, that had developed a week ago off the South-Western area of the North Pacific Ocean, made its way north, gathering power, until it hit us directly in the city of No. 6.

Off the South-Western area of the North Pacific Ocean - that would indicate East Asia above the equator, and No. 6 lies above the point where the hurricane (or typhoon as it should be called) formed. Here's a map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon#mediaviewer/File:Pacific_typhoon_tracks_1980-2005.jpg) of typhoons between 1980 and 2005.
So if it's indeed a tropical storm and thus a typhoon, then this is the area we should be looking at. Japan looks likely, as does China - maybe also Korea?

(Disclaimer that my topographical and geographical 'knowledge' dates back to junior high and is WOEFUL, so if someone is more informed about this than I am, please feel absolutely free to correct me.)
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: AoYokai on November 09, 2014, 12:13:44 pm
There's a map of gold deposits (I think) in China here: http://gold.infomine.com/countries I don't know how reliable this source is.

There's also this about gold in North Korea, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_North_Korea#Gold_mining) but I don't really know about the climate in there so...
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: lawlya on November 09, 2014, 01:00:44 pm
I never knew something like this existed *w* Wow!

Well, I can at least tell you that Europe definitely doesn't have tropical storms. So it's probably really East Asia :) And as far as I know, the forest that is around No.6 is probably natural? The Mao Forest was at least ... But you're right - mountains are a good hint ^^

As far as I know (and I don't know much) Korea would probably be too tropical? I mean, it's never stated that the climate around No.6 is humid or anything. And if I think of Korea I kind of have the image of really humid and hot summers ... I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 01:48:52 pm
South-Korea, or at least Seoul, is humid continental/sub tropical, wiki helpfully informs me. Cold, dry winter, wet, hot summer, and no spring. You're right, @lawlya, might be too tropical.
North-Korea... I kind of doubt as a setting, that would be a rather daring move if Asano consciously placed it there considering real-world affairs. Interesting thought, though. From what we know, the environment there is... not so good. Climate wise it might fit better?

Yeah, I think it's mentioned the forest in the North is natural as well. (Though wasn't the Mao forest in the North too? Was it part of the same forest or are there multiple forests?) Hm, the mountains were in the North too... though I think the forest is still within city walls. At least on the map, the airport is, and the airport was built where the Mao forest used to be. Ah, I digress, sorry.

Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Ahiku on November 09, 2014, 02:56:19 pm
I thought the Mao forest was right there where No. 6 is now and that the Forest Park is a part of the former Mao forest. They killed the Mao people to grab their land? I think there's a difference between Northern forest and Mao forest. But I can't say it for sure.

Hmmm, I googled a little bit and found a forest called "Maolan" in Libo Country, China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libo_County
The forest is a karst forest... characterized by underground drainage systems with sinkholes, dolines, and caves. (Something like that could be right under the CF...)
About the forest:
Quote
According to statistics, the karst forest is a rare original forest to survive with Central Asian tropical karst features. The forest and karst formations create an ecological system of profound scientific value. It provides a natural science museum of karst formations for scientific research as well as particularly fascinating scenery. Unlike most other karst scenic areas, which are usually barren, the Maolan forest integrates hills, waters, underground caves and green trees, presenting a beautiful picture.

The province is Guizhou...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guizhou
Quote
Overall Guizhou is a mountainous province however it is more hilly in the west while the eastern and southern portions are relatively flat. The western part of the province forms part of the Yunnan-Guizhou Plateau..
Guizhou has a subtropical humid climate. There are few seasonal changes. Its annual average temperature is roughly 10 to 20 °C, with January temperatures ranging from 1 to 10°C and July temperatures ranging from 17 to 28 °C.

Ok, there are a few changes.. but well, when it's 1°C i winter and 28°C in summer there are changes.
Maybe it's a bit too much in the south... and it doesn't say if there are mountains in the north.
But it's a whole province. No. 6 does't seem to be extremely huge. ^^°

So... it's in the south. Uh...I dunno... does the book say if the mountains are close? I mean there's the Northern Forest... the mountains could be far away. ^^°
And when you look at a map... there are defiitely mountains in the north. (But well, more in the west. oo°)
Faaaar in the north are the. But not too far.
(Ah...ok, I can't use google maps links here. XD Ok... I'll post a picture instead...)

And gold... there's also gold in the province Guizhou.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinfeng_Gold_Mine

Ok here's a map...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Ahiku/maolan_zps08d1b50a.jpg)

Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 03:37:21 pm
@Ahiku: I actually thought that the forest itself was outside of No. 6 until it started to expand more? In the novels, that is. I'm gonna dig them up, hang on.

In volume 9, it says:

Quote
Before No. 6 was born, this area was a miraculously preserved stretch of beautiful, abundant forest. I said miraculous, but this land―its forests, woods, and lakes― was actually meant to survive. Elyurias and the Forest People protected this realm. It was because of her that this land's wildlife was spared damage.
(...)
Rou was a member of a revival project team chosen to design and build No. 6 on this land. Before No. 6 was created, there used to be a small, pretty town at the edge of the forest. People who survived through the waste and decay lived modestly here in a tightly-knit community. This town was the mother of No. 6. Bright young people were chosen from that town to form a team to build a utopian city.

(9th-ave (http://9th-ave.blogspot.ie/2012/10/novel-no-6-vol-9-ch-4-a.html))

The town being the Town of Roses, whose people didn't know about the Forest People. So then it would be a big area under Elyurias that the forest and the future No. 6 happen to be a part of?

And in the epilogue (http://9th-ave.blogspot.ie/2012/11/novel-no-6-vol-9-epilogue.html):
Quote
Promise them a land where they can live in peace. Shion had forwarded Rou's short message to the Restructural Committee, and gotten permission to allocate a part of the northern forest to those people. The land was on the outskirts of Mao, where the Forest People used to live. The dense
expanse of forest protected their eyes, which were sensitive to bright sunlight because of the darkness they were accustomed to.

... That doesn't actually clarify it one bit, huh. Still not sure if Mao is the name of the area or of the actual forest.

I got the impression the Forest Park was entirely man made, actually... I mean, all of the plants and animals there were managed on a nanoscale level, which was why Shion didn't like it.


Wahhh I got side tracked again, sorry ;;; but that is super interesting! And I guess 'North of No. 6' does not necessarily have to mean 'North on the map'? Or does it... Hm. But yeah, aside from a stray hill in the North Block, no actual mountains are mentioned as being seen in the story I think, so I doubt they're all that close. Like, relatively close, but not 'oh look it's a mountain in our backyard' close.

I have no idea how big No. 6 is - it doesn't look super big on the map, but it does have trains? And it's self-contained because there's nothing in between the cities (or so it is said anyway), so it's not like those trains will run outside of No. 6. So it's at the very least a pretty large city then, otherwise who would need trains... (It also has an airport as mentioned, but I suppose those planes do actually go to the other cities, so that doesn't say much about the scale of No. 6 itself.) But it could easily be just a part of a former bigger area or province, if it's only one part that got protected by the Forest People and Elyurias.

But if No. 6 is indeed in China, that sounds like a likely candidate, and actually a forest called MAOlan! Nice found!!


ETA: I just realized I completely forgot to link to the map I've been referring to. Here it is (http://listenforthelove.tumblr.com/post/73832989159/the-world-of-no-6-click-through-for-full-size-or). (It's in the guide and in the earlier volumes of the novels - it's pretty much the same as the map in the manga, though, which has a slightly different drawing style but that's it, I believe.)
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Ahiku on November 09, 2014, 05:07:00 pm
Quote
@Ahiku: I actually thought that the forest itself was outside of No. 6 until it started to expand more? I'm gonna dig up the novels, hang on.

Ah... yeah, but No. 6 wanted the land...

Volume 6, chapter 5 says a couple of things about it. For example:

Quote
"My people, Shion―we were once called the Forest People. Even before No.6... no, even before the Town of the Rose, which would become the beginnings of No. 6, we lived in the forest, and it was our home. We were in harmony―true harmony with the wind, the earth, the water and the sky, and with animals and plants. For all of that time."

That's why I thought they lived there... o.o and the city cut down parts of the forest.

Quote
"Yes, Shion. The Forest People used to inhabit this land. That is why so much nature has managed to remain miraculously intact."

Quote
"Shion, you probably had no idea it was happening, but No. 6 was still burgeoning when you were born. They tried to swallow every single piece of land which was suitable for their habitation and make it their own. They concluded that we were in the way. We were people of the forest―we obeyed the laws of the forest, but refused to worship anything else. We refused to become part of No. 6. Back then, the wall was finishing up at a considerable speed. Only those on the inside of the silver wall were to be treated like humans. As for those outside, they could invade it or destroy it however they liked―that was becoming No. 6's stance. And in accordance with it, they invaded the entire forest, and stole it from us. You understand what I'm saying?"

Quote
"So No. 6 invaded your forest, destroyed it, and went on extending its territory."

Quote
"That's right. It was around where the airport is now. The woods that dot the place are the remnants of the forest. They must've wanted land to make a runway on. A few years after the massacre, No. 6's walls stretched out into the form they are today."

Ok... somehow I always thought that most of the nature in No. 6 was part of the Mao forest before that... They can still controll it afterwards, thin it out, regulate everything... But especially trees need a while to grow.

Ah, this chapter is really interesting... there's also another description of No. 6's location.

Quote
There was once a city here as well. It was a beautiful city. There was an almost miraculous amount of abundant nature still left intact on this stretch of land. Admittedly, there was no ocean―but there were deep forests, lakes and marshes, and plains. Yes: it was indeed miraculous. It was a place of miracles, like the rose that blooms in the midst of blasted pieces of rubble.

So, yeah... no ocean. So it's definitely not on an island. Japan is game over. XD
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 09, 2014, 05:25:51 pm
@Ahiku: ah... I think I took that 'those outside' very literally, then. Hm.
At least the Forest People seem to have lived in only one part of the forest by that time, though? Maybe they used to live in all of the forest before No. 6 drove them out to a certain corner, where they were eventually wiped out?
I guess it'd make sense if the Forest Park was built around already existing nature indeed, trees don't just pop up from nowhere. Didn't think of that, oops.

Ah, huh, no ocean? o-o But... not close to an ocean should rule out typhoons, shouldn't it? I mean, it's probably not an ocean-side city then, but it has to be sort of close in order for a typhoon to strike... I didn't get the impression it was an exaggerated autumn storm, but an actual typhoon, so, huh?  ???
DANG IT. XD;
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Weisel on November 09, 2014, 05:50:06 pm
I lived in central Pennsylvania (a state without any coasts) for a while and one year we actually had a hurricane come close to us from the southern United States... So I think it doesn't have to be too terribly close to the ocean to get weather similar to that.
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: AoYokai on November 11, 2014, 11:24:19 pm
Wow this is really complicated... but interesting :D I think I'll use China for my fic... but if anyone finds anything else it's still really interesting to hear :)
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 12, 2014, 03:21:15 pm
Ah, good luck with the fic, @AoYokai! Will you share once you're done? I'm very curious now, haha!

@Weisel: wow, really? O_o that is pretty scary. Huh, no idea hurricanes could go that far inland (is that a word?)...
Guess it doesn't have to be super close to the coast indeed. Maybe just a figure of speech to clarify it's not like the beach is 5 minutes away or something?
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: AoYokai on November 13, 2014, 10:14:05 am
Thank you :) I'll post it on tumblr and AO3 on the Holy Day Celebration week :)
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Ahiku on November 13, 2014, 03:10:40 pm
*-* Can't wait to read it then, Aoyokai.
It's always fun to do research work. :3 And it's nice that you asked here to start a conversation and discussion about it.

@listenforthelove

Ah, you have posted this map where you can see typhoons..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon#mediaviewer/File:Pacific_typhoon_tracks_1980-2005.jpg
I think it reaches the Maolan region, too. Barely. But that would also fit... Shion thought it was a present and was really exited. I guess storms like that are pretty rare, then.
(Maybe they even regulated little storms, but a real typhoon is probably too much. ^^)

Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: listenforthelove on November 15, 2014, 11:24:47 am
@AoYokai: ahh, more reasons to look forward to Holy Celebration Week~ can't wait to read!

@Ahiku: hmm, yeah that's true, Shion was really excited so I guess it's not a regular occurrence indeed... Kind of depends on how much No. 6 can control the climate as well, but yeah, the Maolan region sort of fits in that map, so it's very much possible indeed! (and hey, if the climate changes, there might be more storms. Aren't there more and more storms in 10 or 20 year intervals anyway? Or did I remember that wrong?)
Title: Re: No. 6's location
Post by: Kai on June 29, 2015, 02:56:52 pm
I did not research really... but my imagination just took me to China, the region closer to Korea, it would roughly fit the climate (always depending on how much the climate would change after warfare) though I think it would be likely for that area...
A rough (large) estimate would be somewhere around the provinces Jilin, Liaoning or Shandong.

I can't say exactly why, but for some reason I don't think it would be the Hebei or Beijing region and certainly not Shanghai. Maybe it just wouldn't feel right to be that close to any major international population centers. And Hebei struck me as very barren, too. (Though I can't judge well... I've been on the train for around 16 hours by then and I was traveling hard-class (hard seats only = very tiring, especially when the train is even stuffed enough to have people lounging in the isle and standing around.).)

To me it was always obvious that No.6 clearly had a lot of influences from Japan, yet it was definitely diverse. Rikiga's character struck me as definitely having caucasian influences as did some things withing No. 6. Now with places the drawings/designs certainly had influence. Though while reading I did recognise a somewhat Japanese/Asian culture, yet, I had the feeling Asano did include things that would be a bit untypical for Japan and more typical for more Western customs... At least more than today's Japanese culture has.

Then the name for the "Mao" forest/people... That name just strikes me as something more Chinese sounding (yes, I'm totally taken in by cliché here...) and they were considered 'ancient' and well, it would fit for the mixture of cultures living in No. 6 name them something that sounds cliché for the land that has once been there (for a very, very long time, China has a long history after all).

I also wondered how the rest of the world has changed/shifted... it has been said before, things were flooded and I guess weapons could have changed stripes of land into very different things... so the map could look a bit different than we know it.

But well, no serious research here, it's mainly based on a little bit of experience and a (not really) educated guess.