Author Topic: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion  (Read 487 times)

Anilyan

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Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« on: August 29, 2015, 04:59:12 am »
As is said in the epilogue of the novels, at least 4 years passed before Nezumi return to Shion, maybe more. That means they reunite after turning to adults, and I was thinking it would be odd if, after adult, they still being virgin - I read the sexcanon topic and many of you, me too, agreed that it's unlikely they had sex when they lived together. So I was imagining that, during the time they were apart, they probably tried other relationships, not so meaningful as the bond between they, but something normal and little.

I don't know if I'm explaining it well, I'm still learning English... I want to know your opinion about it :) It's hard to imagine them with someone who's not each other, but I guess it is part of "growing" and I bet both would understand after reunite why they did that and won't be jealous. What kind of people do you imagine Shion and Nezumi with? What gender? (personally, I think they don't care much about the gender).

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lawlya

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2015, 05:45:38 am »
Hi :) Don't worry too much, your English is just fine ^^

I strongly headcanon Shion to be demisexual which basically means he wouldn't have the desire to have sex with anyone he doesn't share a meaningful bond with. Though I could imagine, Shion being as he is, trying sex for the sake of it. I don't know I'm very conflicted with this topic myself and never got to a solution.
On one hand, I can imagine Shion to experiment with his sexual desires and trying sex but coming to the conclusion that he doesn't want to have any with anyone that isn't Nezumi at the moment. And therefore he would stop after a while. On the other hand, I also can't see Shion doing that because let's be honest: He could seriously hurt the feelings of the other party just because he's not all that invested in the relationship since he's in love with some other person. And on top of that, there's a high chance that he wouldn't even have the desire to be sexually active so ... I kinda swing either way.

As for Nezumi: I think he would try to be with other people, mainly to spite himself and try to forget Shion (which isn't a really nice reason to sleep with somebody, let's be honest). Whether he successes or not is something different. I think he would have problems letting someone get so close to him without knowing and trusting them and if he succeeds, he still thinks about Shion so the whole ordeal would have been pretty much useless.

So, ehm ... they might try but they'd both stop after a while realising it's not what they want and that it's not fair for the other person involved?

Ahiku

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2015, 07:35:30 am »
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it would be odd if, after adult, they still being virgin

We live in a society where sex sells. It’s everywhere and normal and when you don’t do it at a certain age, you’re not “normal”. But I think it’s not odd when you’re still a virgin even though you’re an adult. Some people don’t want to have sex, other people want to have sex but nobody wants to have sex with them. X’D There are so many difficult types of sexuality…

But it’s interesting to think about it, especially in relation to the society of No. 6.
Of course there are also different types of people. For example people like Fura-san, who buys sex in the West Block. We know that they don’t have prostitution in No. 6. That means, if you don’t get a lover or partner or at least an ONS, you’re probably out of luck.

Then, you also have people like Karan. She was apparently a bit wilder in her youth (otherwise I can’t explain why she liked Shion’s horrible father…), but since she has her son and his **** father left the city, she probably never got laid again. ^^° Even though there seem to be a lot of men who are interested in her, but she even told Safu:
Quote from: NO. 6 - Vol 2 Ch 4 (b)
"Women can go on living without a man, you know."
Okay, we don’t know what she did when they still lived in Chronos and Shion was in school, but I don’t think she met some guys. And according to Shion he always lived alone with his mother.
Well, then we also have people, society would consider as “normal”… like Renka and Getsuyaku, who live in a relationship, or Safu who seems to be a cis hetero girl. But homosexual couples also seem to be accepted in No. 6. (I mean, no one ever said something about Nezumi and Shion… Karan never said. “Omg, my son is gaaay D:” and I highly suppose that she knows Shion loves Nezumi. Safu asked Shion if he’s gay, but I think it was not in that: “OMG ARE YOU GAAY D:” way, it didn’t give me a negative expression.
In West Block, people seem to accept it even more. Inukashi or Rikiga never said a word, and I’d say even Rikiga saw that there’s…something… between Shion and Nezumi. X’D Especially Nezumi is not shy in regard to showing his affection, e.g. holding hands or even just getting emotional. Then we also have that cleaner guy who tried to hit on Shion and well, even though he didn’t like it, it was not because the cleaner was a man. ^^°

The West Block is of course more open, sexually. Prostitution is common and Nezumi learned quickly that he can use sex…or sex appeal as a weapon to manipulate people.
I have two theories in regard to Nezumi… the first one is, that he’s still a virgin. Some people think that he probably got raped, or that he uses sex as a tool to get whatever he wants. But he’s a good actor and he’s not stupid. I dare to say that he could use his sex appeal as a weapon even though he didn’t have sex yet. He has books, he has theoretical knowledge, and to get some information it’s probably enough to play a bit with his “victim”, maybe a little kiss here and a little whisper there…

But “real” sex is way too dangerous. STDs, vulnerability… it’s just not really safe and Nezumi really wanted to survive. I guess for someone who has such a strong survival instinct, it’s nothing he’d do just for fun. I could imagine he has some other experiences… (Like jerking someone off or something ^^° if it’s really, really necessary…) But well, apart from that he had other problems than taking care of his sex life. XD That’s why I think it could be possible that he’s still a virgin.

The second theory is that he had sex for whatever reason, maybe even some not very nice experiences, but I guess altogether; it wasn’t too bad, since sex seems to be a positive thing to him. (When he tells Shion that he needs to survive because he didn’t even have sex yet… or when he tries to talk with Shion about Safu and her sex demand, or whatever…that he’s so skinny he shouldn’t get naked in front of his lover…) He’s actually really interested in Shion’s sex life. LOL. Ok, one reason is teasing Shion (who really doesn’t want to talk about it, since he’s always changing the topic), maybe a little hint of jealousy? XD Because Shion was closer to sex than Nezumi… or maybe because he likes Shion although he doesn’t know it yet…? XD Well, I don’t know. My point is just, that it doesn’t seem as if sex is something bad to Nezumi. And I think if he really had a very traumatic past concerning **** and abuse, I don’t really think he’d talk about it like that. Otherwise, it could also be a coping mechanism. Who knows… but I think and I want to think that he’s still a virgin, maybe not that innocent, because he did some other stuff, but without sexual act…

Hm… I think Nezumi is bi. I’ve read that some people think he’s asexual, and I really think that he doesn’t have a very huge sex drive… otherwise he’d just nail Shion when they share a bed all the time.

I agree with Lawl’s headcanon about demisexual Shion and also the point that he’d probably like to try it out, just because he’s so curious, but wouldn’t do it, because he doesn’t love the other person and doesn’t want to hurt them. But when you see Shion in Beyond, I could also imagine that he has other problems than sex. XD He’s just working and nothing else. If Safu were still alive, I could imagine he’d do it with her, just because he promised it and he said that his body would react, but it wouldn’t be good… they’d both hate it. ^^° Shion thinks way too much and I think it’s really something very, very special and emotional to him and nothing he’d do very often. His sex drive doesn’t seem to be that huge. XD But it’s there as long as it’s about Nezumi, just think about the death kiss in the corpse pit. ^^°

Nezumi… hm…also 2 theories… If he’s still a virgin, I totally see him trying it out when he’s on the tramp, because…why not. XD He’s curious and sadly…he tries to forget Shion. But I think he’ll feel empty and not that great and… well…I don’t know. It feels good, but it’s not super great.
The other theory… he wasn’t a virgin anymore… he knows how it feels like and doesn’t really need it, so he doesn’t do it, because… god, too messy and you have to get close to other people then and god, it’s way too exhausting and they could steal his clothes or whatever.

But I guess if he’s doing it with Shion one day, it will be the first time he really feels something for his partner and it will probably overwhelm him and scare him to death. ^^°

(Ah…and now Inukashi, since I’ve been talking about all of them… I think they are totally asexual. ^^)

Oh god, I wrote way too much, stop me. ;_;

Weisel

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2015, 08:55:17 am »
My only input is that I think Shion's way too depressed to have any kind of sex drive. I think maybe there'd be the slim chance of "trying out sex" but otherwise I don't think he'd have much if any interest is experimenting with that.

Ahiku

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2015, 08:59:41 am »
Yeah, that's also what I think when I consider his chapter in "Beyond"...
Too stressed, too depressed... Maybe also too sentimental.
He seems to feel better in the epilogue, though, but he's still (and apparently happily) waiting for Nezumi.

Anilyan

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2015, 09:46:46 am »
Your answers helped me organizing my own theories, thank you :3

I was thinking he would try to do sex with someone at least once, and it wouldn't felt bad - it would be with someone close, not just as a friend but in a way he feels sexual attraction. However, he will understand that something was missing, some deepness to the relationship, and maybe feel a bit guilty also. He can't and don't want to deny is feelings for Nezumi, and will understand that is better to him to wait.  However, as Lawlya said,
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He could seriously hurt the feelings of the other party just because he's not all that invested in the relationship since he's in love with some other person.

Shion really cares about others feelings, he isn't much social in spite of being gentle, and I guess all the work he gets after Nezumi's departure will make it worse. Not just sex, having a relationship with someone needs attention and time, something he probably is losing little by little. I don't imagine him losing is gentleness and principles as some people thought after reading the chapter "Shion's days", because we can see him smiling in the epilogue, and I believe somehow he will manage to get a little of free time and accept all the things that had happened until then. Peraphs he accepts also that he really don't want to do sex with anyone else than Nezumi, and he will wait for that too. I hadn't imagined Shion as demisexual yet, but it really fit what we know about him. However, I like the idea of Shion "trying once" just to make certain.

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If Safu were still alive, I could imagine he’d do it with her, just because he promised it and he said that his body would react, but it wouldn’t be good… they’d both hate it. ^^°
Maybe not hate, but maybe not also like. Ahiku made a good point remembering Safu. Shion didn't feel that kind of attraction for her, but he also didn't reffuse, what makes me think that, even if demisexual, he could try it for some reasons.

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I want to think that he’s still a virgin, maybe not that innocent
It's what I want to think about Nezumi too. Some people imagine a kind of "dark past" to him, putting in that terms - if he didn't make things to seduce and play with someone and obtain what he wants, he may have been abused. But he is good fighting, even when a children. As was shown in Beyond, he finished the group of men (those men who followed Shion's father, and wanted to "have fun" with Nezumi after notice how he's pretty) quickly, looking used to that kind of ask. So I believe he never crossed the line, for questions of desire and also sake, at least before his departure.

As Ahiku said, sex seems to be a positive thing to him. And while travelling, I imagine he could try to have sex with someone he met, maybe even getting a fellow traveler. He is really trying to forget Shion - even if contradictory, as he remembers him all the time, like when he was underwater, or when didn't kill Shion's father because had imagined Shion saying to don't kill for his sake - and having sex with someone else (I keep saying someone because I also believe Nezumi is bi) would be a way of convincing himself that he is making progress. However, after a while, he will realize that it's not what he really wants. 

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so he doesn’t do it, because… god, too messy and you have to get close to other people then and god, it’s way too exhausting and they could steal his clothes or whatever.
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But I guess if he’s doing it with Shion one day, it will be the first time he really feels something for his partner and it will probably overwhelm him and scare him to death

Haha, it seems like him >.<

Ahiku

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2015, 10:34:33 am »
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Maybe not hate, but maybe not also like. Ahiku made a good point remembering Safu. Shion didn't feel that kind of attraction for her, but he also didn't reffuse, what makes me think that, even if demisexual, he could try it for some reasons.

Yes, but I think he didn't refuse because, even though he had Nezumi in mind, he didn't think he'd see him again. In the end he never really wanted to have sex with Safu. He said to Nezumi:

Quote from: Shion
"I would have grown up into a mild, rational, obedient adult, without even knowing there were so many emotions inside of me. I would never have known what it was like to cry, or get angry, or feel resistance toward something. I met you, and I realized how much abundance I had. And I'm proud that I know now."

That's why I think that he "wanted" to find Safu 2 years later. He still had Nezumi in his mind, but he thought he'd never meet him again. Safu was about to leave the city and the only conclusion to him was that he should find her then, have sex with her... maybe even marry her. She's his best friend, his closest friend and I'm pretty sure he loves her as well, just not in that way. ^^° But it's like he said... he had to think rational and obedient and he was mild... he'd probably just do whatever she wants, even though he was not feeling that way for her. It would be the most rational decision to marry her. She's his friend, they like each other, they are both super intelligent and could have really smart children together. It would be something the city would approve as well. (Maybe.... I mean he was not allowed to go back to Chronos, but maybe he'd be allowed if he's starting a family... no idea.)

Then, he also had the bee in his neck and the bee suppressed his true emotions, even though they were already there when he was still in No. 6. I mean his mother and even Safu knew that he has feelings for a certain mouse.

Quote from: Safu
"If I hadn't met you, I wouldn't have known what it was like to yearn after someone. I would never have known what it meant to love.... I'm glad I was able to know. I was born, and I was able to meet you. I don't regret a single thing. Hm, well, that might be a little bravado. You did tell me once that I had a bad habit putting on a brave face."

Quote from: Safu
"You feel the same way I do, don't you? You're glad you were able to know. You wouldn't be able to live anymore without knowing what yearning and love is like."

That's why I think they would hate it, if Safu were still alive and they would sleep with each other. Because she's still be in love and she'd know that Shion is not in love with her. It would hurt her. Shion would just sleep with her, because he promised her to sleep with her and I could imagine he'd feel very bad for breaking his promise, unless he's finally grown up enough to tell her that it's not possible. ^^° It would just end bad, he'd probably hate himself...he'd feel guilty, they both would feel very bad.  But yeah...without the whole story, without Nezumi showing up again...without the bee acting up, I think they would have married, but I guess they both would not end up super happy.

--

Ah, concerning Nezumi... lol I could imagine he's sleeping with other people when he's traveling, but every time he share's his bed with someone else, Shion comes to his mind. I mean, he's always thinking about him and I guess it's even worse when he's having sex. X'D He's haunting him, god just imagine Nezumi starting to scream in the middle of sex and running out of the room. XD Or moaning Shion's name instead of the name of that random person.

(Somehow I don't think Nezumi would travel together with another person. He's a loner and... it would be sad, since it was special that he managed to live together with Shion. Traveling with someone else and then even sleeping with that person would mean emotional bonding, attachment and that he's really about to forget Shion and their special bond... ;_; Because...it would mean he's letting someone else in his heart.) I think it would hurt Shion a lot, because Nezumi didn't want to take him along. (Let's be honest, Shion didn't really want to stay in No. 6. ^^° And I don't see why he's the one who has to rebuild it. o_o° He's just 16... he should finish his studies and enjoy his life a bit before he starts to work ^^° And there are also other people... he's not alone and the city doesn't belong to him. o_o° I'm sure he also would like to travel a bit... and of course he'd like to be together with the one he loves.) Nezumi freed himself and put his own chains on Shion... <_< I'd even say he manipulated him a bit. I mean Shion feels so responsible for the city... hm...
Not very nice.

Well, that's why I really hope Nezumi would not travel with someone else... (at least not for a longer time XD I can understand it when he meets someone and they go to the next city together or something like that... I'm pretty sure he'll meet some people and talk to them every now and then. ^^°)

God, thinking about this makes me sad. XD

lawlya

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 11:48:28 am »
Okay, I missed a lot of good points so here I am going through the answers chronological xD Bear with me.

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I have two theories in regard to Nezumi… the first one is, that he’s still a virgin. Some people think that he probably got ****d, or that he uses sex as a tool to get whatever he wants. But he’s a good actor and he’s not stupid. I dare to say that he could use his sex appeal as a weapon even though he didn’t have sex yet. He has books, he has theoretical knowledge, and to get some information it’s probably enough to play a bit with his “victim”, maybe a little kiss here and a little whisper there…

But “real” sex is way too dangerous. STDs, vulnerability… it’s just not really safe and Nezumi really wanted to survive. I guess for someone who has such a strong survival instinct, it’s nothing he’d do just for fun. I could imagine he has some other experiences… (Like jerking someone off or something ^^° if it’s really, really necessary…) But well, apart from that he had other problems than taking care of his sex life. XD That’s why I think it could be possible that he’s still a virgin.

Yeah, that would definitely be a possibility. I headcanon Nezumi to at least have some ... physical experience beyond kissing but real sex, I'm not sure. Though your theory strongly relies on the fact that STDs are still a thing in No.6.
I mean, they have superior medical treatments, I think you could savely assume that STDs aren't a problem in society anymore?
Additionally, he's really confident in his experiences while talking to Shion about sex and if he's still a virgin, I imagine he would rather bite his tongue off than admitting that xD So we'll probably never know ...

And you can eliminate the danger of vulnerability. Well, I'm conflicted but that's my standard with No.6 headcanons, so ... I can imagine both.

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The second theory is that he had sex for whatever reason, maybe even some not very nice experiences, but I guess altogether; it wasn’t too bad, since sex seems to be a positive thing to him.

I actually never thought of that! Good point. I never headcanoned Nezumi to have had bad experiences with sex; he's just too damn cautious to get caught and raped but this strongly suggests that he indeed never did o.o

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But I guess if he’s doing it with Shion one day, it will be the first time he really feels something for his partner and it will probably overwhelm him and scare him to death. ^^°

Yep, definitely.

(Okay, I just answered Ahiku in the end but let's be honest: That was one hell of an essay o.o!)

Ahiku

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2015, 12:24:08 pm »
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Though your theory strongly relies on the fact that STDs are still a thing in No.6.

Maybe not in No. 6, but do they also have superior medical treatments in the West Block? I mean, most people are starving, so I doubt that they could afford expensive medicine. But STDs are just one example...

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And you can eliminate the danger of vulnerability.

Hm...I don't think you can eliminate it completely. o.o I really think you're in a vulnerable situation when you're penetrating someone or when you're getting penetrated. (Even though being the active part is probably better to keep in control of the situation. And Nezumi needs to be in control, otherwise it's a life-threatening situation...) When he's on the bottom, he could get badly injured and it's definitely harder to fight like that. And I guess he's hardly...100 % on alert and ready to fight while doing it, no matter in which position. o.o

So maybe he never was the bottom part, unless he was forced to be that, but I guess such an experience would scare him to death.

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Additionally, he's really confident in his experiences while talking to Shion about sex and if he's still a virgin, I imagine he would rather bite his tongue off than admitting that xD So we'll probably never know ...

Well, he's an actor. XD And he loves teasing Shion. And of course he'd never admit it... X'D Tbh, I'd laugh so hard... it would just be so bold. ^^° Too bad we'll never know it. ;_; Asano-senseeeei...please tell us~

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(Okay, I just answered Ahiku in the end but let's be honest: That was one hell of an essay o.o!)

Sorry ;___;



lawlya

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 01:41:35 pm »
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Maybe not in No. 6, but do they also have superior medical treatments in the West Block?

I know but West Block wasn't always so ... West Blockery? And people have to come from somewhere and once you invented a cure for diseases like that they die out pretty quickly (take the pox). But yeah, STDs aren't the only diseases you could get through sexual intercourse, I'll give you that ^^

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Even though being the active part is probably better to keep in control of the situation. And Nezumi needs to be in control, otherwise it's a life-threatening situation...

Yep, I wouldn't have thought Nezumi has had sexual intercourse with a man before. I mean, like penetrating. Men are just ... likelier to be able to overpower him. He has his mice to stand guard. You can take precautions. It's still risky so it would have been a trade-off of risks and gains but if the situation calls for it ...
It was just an idea though - I totally see the logic in your argumentation, not doubt about that xD

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(Okay, I just answered Ahiku in the end but let's be honest: That was one hell of an essay o.o!)

Sorry ;___;

That was totally meant as a compliment xD

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Re: Other relationships to Nezumi or Shion
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 05:53:55 am »
Ohhhh, this was an incredibly fun read! :D

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And while travelling, I imagine he could try to have sex with someone he met, maybe even getting a fellow traveler.
I actually don't think Nezumi could have sex with anyone he's just met. I don't think he's a demisexual like Shion, but I think Nezumi is very, very traumatized and as a child who was told to "never trust anyone," I don't think he'd easily yield to any physical or social contact. The main argument is that: Nezumi trusts nobody (with the exception of Shion). Granted, unless, he changes during his journey and learns to grow up and trust people. ^^; (I mean, ultimately, that IS the desired outcome..)

The second reason that Nez would never have had sex would be his burn scar. Particularly when he was in West Block, before the fall of No.6.
His scar ached all the time and I feel like that would lessen his desire to come into full-body contact with other people, much less show his scar to anyone and have them know his painful backstory. Of course, there are ways to have sex that won't require full-body contact or full nudity, but ... Nezumi's image in my head doesn't seem to be the "type who'd whip out his dick" anywhere. XD; but of course, Asano-sensei can surprise us all. -.- It is possible that after the fall of No.6, the scar aches less now since Nezumi is no longer fixated on revenge... and it'd enable him to have sex and be intimate properly, but.... :3  It goes back to his trust issue.

though, speaking on the topic of sex with others and post-beyond, imagine Nezumi coming back to No.6 a virgin and finding out Shion's had more sexual experience than him. XD *laughs*