Author Topic: Random NO6 talks  (Read 1039 times)

kare_reiko

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Random NO6 talks
« on: August 15, 2015, 02:06:25 am »
Ok, I made this topic about all things from no.6 so it won't die so fast like others topics here.

So, if anything related to NO.6 happen, or you had something random, even no so important to say about NO.6, here's place.

I will start. Today's "Roommates before lovers" was finished. It was nice AU fanfiction, it's was interesting and I remember how I waited how autor will explain Shion's past.


As for little add more to talk about Nezumi's abuse actions. He don't use force only to Shion, we see him using a little mind abuse to Inukashi too, it's his way of doing things. He used force to protect his feelings, since he only reacted with force when Inukashi started to mention Shion. None of his abusive actions are caused because of lust or need to complete subordinate others to him.

 

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lawlya

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2015, 07:51:26 am »
To add to that discussion, I recently had a thought:
We established that Nezumi lacks the mindset of an abuser although his behaviour can be seen as abusive. His intention isn't to control Shion and making him dependent on himself but to make sure Shion survives. And Nezumi only ever resorts to violence (physical or psychological) when he's either afraid of Shion doing something that might very well end up killing him or when he fears for his own life because well, Shion easily triggers him.
Now, considering that Nezumi grew up in the West Block, was thrown into the underground of the Correctional Facility and lived in those caves until he could flee, I'd say that Nezumi's only reaction to fear is either fight or flight (which is basically the most normal response to fear of any kind. All humans have those same instincts and the decision isn't even made consciously).
Holding a knife to Shion's throat is really a no-go and I think we all agree that that's pretty ****ed up (I mean, apparently fist fighting isn't that big of a deal between boys? I see that with the male friends of a friend of mine. They're pretty much okay with that. A knife on the other hand is something totally different.) Okay, where am I going?
So, Nezumi was afraid (no way he wasn't; Shion making a serum out of his blood and going back to No.6 where he would surely be executed). But there wasn't a possibility to flee the situation. It was his home. If he flees from his home where should he go? Where should he feel safe again? With the flight response out of the way, the only way left was fighting. We all know how that ended (with Shion not being very impressed and Nezumi being very confused).

Ehm ... yeah, I hope it made as much sense as it did in my head. It's really hard to bring thoughts like these to paper :/ It's hot in Germany too so my brain is kinda fried.

I think whether or not a relationship is abusive depends on the offender's intentions and the victim's reactions for me. And Nezumi isn't a typical abuser (I might say; I'm not an expert on the topic) and Shion definitely isn't a typical victim of abuse. And saying that Nezumi's physical abuse triggered Shion to strangle Sasori and shoot Rashi ... Shion nearly choked Rikiga before and you can't tell me that little brawl that ended up with nearly-nose-biting could have made such a big impression on Shion. Shion wasn't a lamb to begin with and he wasn't all that mentally stable either.
Though I don't doubt Nezumi's influence on his break down after realizing he killed Rashi.

Weisel

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2015, 11:22:44 am »
One thing I keep going back to about Nezumi's actions being abusive is SETTING!! Like, of COURSE if anyone was doing the **** Nezumi does in real life, it would immediately be labeled as abuse. But the world of No.6, where Nezumi's family was killed and he was raised in an extremely hostile environment, only allows for basic survival and not a lot of compassion or emotional development. He definitely is left with only "fight or flight" to get him through a lot of things.

And I agree completely, Nezumi does NOT have the abuser mindset. He honestly believes he's doing what he has to do to protect Shion's life. He didn't have any parental figures from the time he was like... twelve? So it's not like there was even anyone to tell him "no Nezumi, don't put knives to people's throats" and even if he DID have someone to raise him then, chances are in the West Block someone WOULD tell him that's the best way to get through any difficult situation. I really don't think he had the chance to grow up without some misconceptions like that.

I'll just outright say it, but I've had a couple people abuse me in my life so I'm pretty good at spotting abusive people, and while Nezumi's behavior in our own personal lives would absolutely be considered abuse, that's simply how he was raised to be and he's not acting that way with the same intentions of an abuser. The big thing is that as soon as he sees what's happening, he tries hard to change it because that's not how he actually had wanted things to be.

My speculation on why Nezumi left was that he felt he was doing more harm than good in Shion's life, and that he felt like he had to do some growing up somewhere else on his own. Of course being the way he is, instead of dealing with those emotions, he was like "it's all in the past and I have to stop feeling things about this matter" as we see in Beyond when he refers to Shion as a thing of the past. That's basically how he's gone through life anyway, with the loss of his family and everything. He treats those pains as something of the past and moves on... which only works temporarily, you lil shithead. Go see a therapist, Nezumi.

lawlya

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2015, 12:35:27 pm »
Yes, setting. I mean, No.6 is basically war, isn't it? With all the trauma going on and such. And even perfectly normal people snap and hurt the people they love the most under stressful situations like these. Imagine Nezumi with his less than social upbringing.

I never wrapped my mind around it that Nezumi left to grow up, really xD I mean, I don't doubt that he had to leave and grow up and that he probably would have done more harm than good and he would have found a way to completely **** up his relationship with Shion with those not-so-good coping mechanisms he developed all on his own.
I personally think he (as in: what he thought) left because it was the only thing he ever looked forward to when No.6 wasn't anymore. He wanted to leave that place and go somewhere else; see the world and leave the demons of the past behind (hence, leaving Shion behind; wouldn't be the first time he equals Shion to No.6 after all ...). Ironically, it's obviously not what he wants from his life anymore and therefore, he still clings to the past by leaving. And that's why Shion keeps haunting him.

Weisel

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 12:52:25 pm »
Ohh, maybe it's sort of a "if I stick to my old beliefs things will go back to how they were" kind of thing. It's hard to explain (at least for me) what that is, but... Obviously he doesn't want to be attached to Shion, probably because any attachment Nezumi has had in the past has led to pain when he loses those people. So instead of acknowledging that he WANTS to be with Shion, he's like "I've wanted to travel away from here for so long. If I do that, I'll finally be happy." ...Even though he WON'T be happy leaving behind that bond he has with Shion. This boy is such a mess and I'm grounding him. No dessert for a year.

kare_reiko

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 03:22:11 pm »
lawlya pointed one good thing out. I'm talking about Shion's actions. While talking about Nezumi abuse topic and how it was showed later in Shion's actions in correctional facility I totally forgot Rikiga scene from beginning of story. Shion attacked Rikiga on his own. Nezumi still didn't had so much influence on Shion at that time. It show that Shion's later actions aren't caused in 100% by Nezumi's teachings. He may had some influence on Shion but it wasn't like Shion was so pure inside. Maybe Nezumi only bring it out into surface.

No.6 is great because nothing is so simple as it looks at first view. Both of them are so complex... You can't simply say who they really are.

I really wish there was someone who would help Nezumi overcome his trauma, so he didn't have to leave Shion. It's all too sad.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 12:27:12 pm by kare_reiko »

lawlya

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 06:12:03 pm »
Funnily enough, @Weisel's icon is a constant reminder of that ;)
It wasn't just the Rikiga scene though. Shion already showed violent tendencies when he was twelve ("Destroy it all" and such). It's like ... well, at one point in Volume 7, Nezumi wonders when Shion lost his fangs and claws. I think they're just buried very deep and all the stress in West Block and the hostile environment brings that forth in Shion. He protects the people he loves no matter what and everytime he lost control, it was just that: Protecting loved ones (namely Nezumi. We never got to see Shion protecting someone else but I'm sure that wouldn't end up significantly less violent).
It's there. Shion might not have these instincts for himself but he sure as hell has them for others.

Nezumi's behaviour and words just gave Shion a name for it: Punishment. Nezumi was appalled that Shion would go so far but maybe he was just as appalled that he would use his own words to justify nearly killing a person. And maybe he finally started to see that he has had an influence on Shion after all and to wonder what else he picked up in the disguise of his pleasant personality.

Ahiku

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2015, 10:58:35 am »
Quote
I may had some influence on Shion but it wasn't like Shion was so pure inside.

Yeah, Shion was never that pure to begin with, just like Lawl said:

Quote
It wasn't just the Rikiga scene though. Shion already showed violent tendencies when he was twelve ("Destroy it all" and such).

But Nezumi is too messed up to understand it. Like Shion told him, Nezumi can just see black and white and nothing in between. Shion is either good/pure, or he is a monster and evil. He should be a monster and evil, since he’s from No. 6 and he starts to think like that again when they are in the pit, because I guess his nerves are super raw. Even though he’s trying to act tough, I’m pretty sure this is a horrible mental situation for him (for Shion as well, but especially for Nezumi who’s already deeply traumatized…) But Shion is not just pure and not just evil. He is both, because he’s a normal human. He has his flaws… but Nezumi tends to put him on a pedestal… but Shion is the same, somehow he’s also doing this, even though I think Nezumi is worse. He’s not fair, absolutely not fair.

I think, Nezumi also has to learn that there’s not just black and white, but also grey. Shion taught him so… it’s not just Shion who’s getting influenced by Nezumi, maybe it’s Nezumi who’s even more influenced by him. Shion is just Shion, and I’m pretty sure Shion would also have killed if it were for Safu or his mother when he’s in such a situation. I think he’ll defend everyone he loves like that, if necessary.

Shion is not a saint. And he never said that he is one. He’s gentle and seems to be a nice boy, but he can be cruel as well… the bee inside of him suppressed a lot of his true character and his emotions as well, so it was not just Nezumi’s doing, even though he showed him the real world and helped to change his point of view in regard of No. 6 a bit…

kare_reiko

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2015, 12:43:35 pm »
I think that Nezumi always took Shion's words into his heart. Everything was important and Nezumi wanted to believe it. Just as they argue about hope, future and stupidy of flower festival, that Shion again shot stright to his heart to explain that such events are parts of people's freedom. He didn't show it in front of Shion but in next scene in theater we see that Nezumi sing song from festival. If he didn't care he wouldn't learn this one and sing it. It was like with third option. Nezumi laughed at it but still, he wanted to believe it.
He even remember Shion's dream (after drinking scene) about colorful stones at bottom of lake and he is somehow sad when he check it out in Beyond. It was just stupid dream and yet, Nezumi remember it.

That's why other side of Shion scared Nezumi so much. After what he gone thought in his live, Nezumi was enchanted by Shion's kindness, but it turned out that it wasn't so simple and as you said Shion was only human too.
They win fight in CF but in the end they lose their war, since they both ended up alone, broken and unhappy.       

Ahiku

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 01:48:13 pm »
Okay, other topic... XD But it thrilled me. o_o° I just reread a part of volume 2, chapter 4 and found this quote:

Quote
In the distant past, I'd said the same thing once. I'd met a man I cared about more than anyone else, and I never wanted to lose him. I wished I could be by his side forever.

But they had separated. The only thing he left in her hands was her newborn baby. 'Shion' was a name that the man had given to his son. It was his last and only gift to her.

So, it was Shion's father who named him and not Karan... (Since Shion said to Nezumi that his mother likes wildflowers...) I think he doesn't know that his father gave him his name.

Somehow, I never know how to judge Shion's dad. I mean, even after 16 years, he called himself like that. He seems to be very fond of Shion. (Or maybe just about the idea of having a son... he apparently didn't want to take responsibility for him, otherwise he would not leave them behind.)
And he made clothes and a cradle for him, so he's not really like those fathers, who are like. "No, I'm not the father, he's not my kid, leave me alone, bye."
Fact is...that he's a horrible **** when it comes to Karan. <_<° And I really hate him for hurting her so much.
She really loved him and he betrayed her and was such a jerk... *hugs Karan* ;_;


lawlya

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2015, 05:35:40 am »
I stumble over the wording "had been separated" ... maybe it wasn't his choice either? Like it's really weird to say it like that if he left. She could have said he left o.o

Ahiku

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 06:53:13 am »
There's no "been" o.o
Quote
But they had separated.

Could also be by their own choice then.

Well, Karan tells more about it in "Shion's days".

Quote
"Maybe you're right. That might have been an indirect reason. I was young and I wanted him to stop being ridiculous. But ever since he found out that Shion was on the way, he changed a little. All his attention was on the unborn baby, and he even stopped drinking and playing around with women, if only for a short while... he picked up drinking again not long after. But I felt like if he kept on being like this, maybe he would turn into a decent family man. Inside, I was proud. That's why I know he didn't leave the family because of a woman... he had another reason..."

So, he really did care for Shion.

Quote
"He was overwhelmed by the fact that No. 6 was gradually―no, actually, quite quickly―morphing as it developed its city structure. He was apprehensive, but he had no idea what he could do about it. Maybe he was afraid. I remember hearing him say over and over to himself, 'This isn't possible. This can't be happening.' Then, one day... it hadn't even been a month since Shion was born... he said to me, 'Let's leave No. 6. We can still escape now. But soon, we won't be able to leave unscathed from this city.' His face was so grave when he said it. He must have given up on No. 6 altogether by that time. He probably thought, 'I can't live here anymore. One day I'll suffocate, and end up taking my own life, or get killed if I don't.' That's why he tried to convince me to escape somewhere far away from No. 6, and start a new life in a strange land, just the three of us."

He had a sharp mind, he had smelled that there was something wrong with No. 6 very early. So yeah... you can think whatever you want then. X'D Somehow they "have been separated", since he was afraid of getting killed. He wanted Karan to come along with him, but otherwise, he didn't try hard enough and just left them behind, where they are probably supposed to die? X'D Ehhh, very nice.
And even though he was loyal during Karan's pregnancy, he didn't change at all. I really don't know what to think about that guy. X'D

I still think Nezumi should kick him in the nuts.

Ah, but also interesting:
We know that Shion's father was chosen to be a member of the revival project team.

Quote
So Karan's acquaintance with the core members of No. 6 had not been through Rou. And his father, as a member, colleague, and holder of the same ideals in his heart, had spent his younger days alongside the mayor and those scientists.

Karan knows Rou, Shion's father knows Rou as well...so it could be that she knew the mayor as well.
I wonder if the mayor noticed that Shion is the son of Karan and the nameless father.

That also means when Nezumi lived in the cave, a man who knew Shion's parents and who was a childhood friend of Shion's mother was Nezumi's godfather. o.o Rou taught Nezumi a lot. Wouldn't it be funny if he also had told him stories about a pretty girl he knew when he was still young? X'D

kare_reiko

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2015, 04:49:20 am »
Maybe Shion's father find out what NO.6 were planing (experiments, wanting to get rid off Forest People just to build airport, etc), that's why he wanted to leave NO.6. Since Karan didn't want to leave with him, he took that as rejection, that she abounded him.

Maybe he picked that name because he knew that Karan loved wild flowers? Maybe he choose that name to show her how much he cared for both of them.

Myself I don't think if any of that would change my image of him. From my own experience I know that drinking father is not good thing and Shion's father kept cheating on Karan who was really wonderful woman. End he even tried to hit/flirt with Nezumi... His image from Beyond isn't good one. I feel that if ever Asano-san would write continuation of NO.6, Shion's father would be main antagonist.     
   

Meopat

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 10:27:16 am »
omg. I was thinking about Shionpapa the other day too.

I think he's just a really irresponsible person; Hence, being able to date / get married and still flirt around, leaving his wife and kid behind, wanting to buy the No.6 leadership just to mess it up.

(makes you wonder why he was ever chosen for office... but is it possible he wasn't like this before? or did political office only show his true nature?... after all, he says:

Quote
Anyone who stands at the top of a state will change. If he doesn't change, he'll be destroyed.

That was what he'd told Nezumi about what might happen to Shion, now that Shion's in charge of the committee, but what if he'd been talking about himself? He was also at the top of a state once, so isn't it likely that it changed him? (still doesn't excuse his actions tho)


Quote from: Karan
I was young and I wanted him to stop being ridiculous. But ever since he found out that Shion was on the way, he changed a little. All his attention was on the unborn baby, and he even stopped drinking and playing around with women, if only for a short while... he picked up drinking again not long after.

This quote makes me think that Shionpapa did try to stop drinking for Karan and Shion, but since he was still in political office then, maybe it got too hard for him to mentally cope?
Suppose if Rou and Shionpapa had been close friends (and I can't imagine that they're not, considering Rou and Karan are childhood friends and Shionpapa and Rou work together. They must at least be acquainted and on good terms), then he would've seen Rou being slowly consumed by Elyurias and chasing after power and glory. and maybe the stress and realization of what Man-in-Labcoat and Fennec intended to do that he panicked and started drinking again. It's not really something you can share with your family about a political struggle...

(of course, this is so much speculation. when did Rou meet Elyurias anyway? We know the forest was burnt down four years after Shion's birth - assuming Nez and Shion are the same age)

... I'm too lazy to check the novel right now, but if you look here  at the lovely timeline Miz made, it pretty much shows that Shionpapa was right on the money, if you assume he leaves before Oct 7th, 2001 ("I had a baby that wasn't even a month old yet.") *_* This is so interesting.

kare_reiko

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Re: Random NO6 talks
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2015, 03:03:01 pm »
Wow, I turn on tumblr now and I saw extra pages from limiter version of NO.6 manga and saw this page:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/e6b7a57305f36e65e055e35237d5db6a/tumblr_nqi1fjCpbX1u1m3i1o5_1280.jpg

I still wait for release of 6th volume here so I no yet saw this page. I'ts look amazing, it's one of my favourite scene and I knew that it wasn't in manga.
It's nice because it show how big was Safu's heart and that even she knew that Shion love Nezumi, (I think Nezumi was only one who couldn't agree that Shion loved him... but it's different story).


Something was on my mind since I read Kino's talks about how he/she wanted to draw more scenes from NO.6.
I wonder why not?
Why he/she had to rush and draw story from novel in such pace? I don't think they would cancel manga if sometimes artist would slow down and draw more scenes from light novel. Fans would be more happy and I think story wouldn't be drew in first place if it didn't have already some fans.

The same for anime, why so rush, why not make 24 episodes, that's two seasons, the last volume of novel wasn't made so it makes more sense to make first season (12 episodes) and before next season story would be finished and they could show rest of light novel...

But well. Japan adaptations are strange and I never can understood them (most of my fav mangas have screwed adaptations I just have but luck for this XD)

So what you think about this?