Author Topic: Timeline in No. 6 - help?  (Read 818 times)

listenforthelove

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Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« on: October 30, 2014, 07:43:13 pm »
(please let me know if this should be somewhere else/not a new thread! otl)


As I set out to reread the novels again for eh, research (totally not crossover background, nope), I came to the conclusion I am rather confused about the timeline in No. 6. Maybe I'm just missing or misreading something, but here's what I got so far:

- Story starts on September 7, 2013. No arguing over that, that's clear.
- Next time we see Shion, it's four years later. Probably not to the day, as he would have mentioned his birthday probably, but it's reasonable to assume it's around September, and the year is 2017 because 2013 + 4 = 2017, I know that much. (Guide supports this, but more on that later.)
- At least several weeks pass before Safu is kidnapped. It's getting winter.
- Here's where I get confused - because it's not stated how much time passes until the Manhunt, but it seems to be some time. Days? Weeks? Months?
- At least 3 full days (but not a lot more) seem to pass between the Manhunt and Holy Celebration Day. The story (or at least the climax) seems to end on the late evening of Holy Day, unless those people stood on the plaza for the entire night.
- It is also explicitly mentioned that this is the Holy Celebration Day of 2017.
- But then - 'Spring was coming. A late spring was starting to arrive in the West Block.' (9th-ave, volume 9, chapter 1 - this is moments after Shion and Nezumi have come out through the garbage chute of the Correctional Facility).

... But if spring is late and at least coming, shouldn't it be February at the very earliest?


I went to the guide to check, but that's still confusing. It gives two dates:
- September 2017: Safu goes on exchange.
- December 2017: Safu gets kidnapped.

Sounds reasonable; in between those is the point marked 'Shion and Nezumi meet again, Shion escapes to the West Block', and it was soon after Safu went on exchange, so September/October sounds pretty reasonable there too. However, the guide puts the Manhunt at the same point in time as Safu's kidnapping, and then Holy Day and the breaking into the Correctional Facility on the same point together. The latter is more or less true (the caves don't really count as the CF yet I guess), but with the former, it would mean Shion and Nezumi barely had any time at all to prepare, and the time between Safu's 'operations' and Elyurias hatching would be pretty quick, too. So I'm guessing the guide isn't super specific to the day here and more of a general guideline than anything. It, too, explicitly states it's Holy Celebration Day 2017, however.


So, how much time passed between Safu's kidnapping and the Manhunt? And how can this Holy Day be for 2017 if spring is coming? Is it a naming thing, like '2017 is over so that's the year we celebrate'?

It's very likely I'm overthinking this or plain misread something, since it's stated to be Holy Celebration Day 2017 as early as volume 6, chapter 4 - a lot of things happen after that, in a very short time span. Basically a day, unless I've missed something again.

I'm curious. Any thoughts on this? Feel free to correct me on anything! It surely wouldn't be a first I misread something, haha ;;

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Ahiku

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2014, 12:27:32 pm »
Omg, this is really interesting. o.o Ah... I always thought they spent like...half a year together and the Holy Celebration is in spring, or shortly before spring.

(I mean when Nezumi leaves Shion behind it's definitely spring, at least in the manga version. So we could also ask... How long did he stay there? A couple of days? Several weeks? o.o He had to recover. And Karan had to wash Nezumi's pants with her super washing powder... really how was she even able to remove the blood... Please Karan, give Nezumi one of Shion's pants. Or buy him another, not so awkward one next time <_<)

Uhm... I think I'm not a big help at all.
I just know when Karan and Yomin meet each other.

Quote
The Holy Celebration was next week. It was a day that marked the founding of the city. Parties and celebratory events would be held all over town.
Vol. 3 ch. 2

This is the part when the nurse dies... and Karan is sitting on the bench talking to that spy granny. So I guess it's shortly after Safu being kidnapped.

Well, things totally rush then...
I mean... Safu is kidnapped... Nezumi knows it half a day later. I guess the same or next day he's going to task Inukashi... and another 1-2 days later, Shion is finding the coat (I guess it will need a couple of days until it's in the clothing store... Inukashi has to smuggle it first...)
The same evening Shion kisses him... the next day Nezumi stops him and they starting their little plan concering Fura. That evening or the next day ( I dunno how fast Rikiga could arrange a meeting with Fura...) they know more about the map... And I think Shion told somewhere that he had learned the map for 3 days (but I'm not sure about it...) ^^

So we have Safus kidapping (1 day), the next day Inukashi smuggling the coat, Nezumi talking to her (2 days), the day after that (or maybe two days after that) Shion finding the coat and kissing Nezumi (3 days), Nezumi stopping Shion, plan (4 days), Fura (5 days), 3 days left until manhunt... maybe 8 days after Safu's kidnapping.

Well... but I also don't understand why it's always spring when it's still December and still 2017. Even if it's something like New Year's Eve, there are still a several months left until spring. ^^
Very confusing.

listenforthelove

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 01:03:04 pm »
Thanks for replying!
I went back to volume 3 and as it turns out, I totally missed this line:

Quote
"Safu left her store, and Karan had followed shortly afterwards. What she witnessed was the kidnapping of Safu by Security Bureau officials. It had already been three days since then."
volume 3, chapter 2

And you're right, it does say the Holy Celebration is the week after in that same chapter.

So then there's a week between Safu's kidnapping and the Manhunt? Which does collide nicely with your timeline. But. A week.
What. I need to readjust my entire view. XD; (this is good news for my fanfic though, but still. I thought they had more time in the West Block together so now I'm sad.)



The spring and 2017 thing still doesn't make sense though... Unless No. 6 uses years differently or something, which is theoretically possible (e.g. December would be what we call February, or the new year starts in March or something), orrrr that was just a mistake/artistic license for symbolism.

Ahiku

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 01:22:01 pm »
Ah, I think it's a bit more than a week, though, like 8-9 days... because we don't know when Shion found the coat or when exactly Fura comes to play... But well, if everything is going fast, then 7 days would be fine too. But 7 days are the minimum. (Woah... so... there's not that much time between Nezumi and Shion's kisses, too ^^)

But even if it's 8 or 9 days, it's still ok...  if it's early in the week, even 10 days would be ok and the celebration would still be in the next week.

So... the events Shion & Nezumi kissing and Karan sitting on a bench could happen at the same day. o.o

Quote
(this is good news for my fanfic though, but still. I thought they had more time in the West Block together so now I'm sad.)

Mee too! ;_;
Like I said, I always though they had 1/2 year... Just because of spring. Meeting in September, parting in Spring. But so... they had 4 months... But well, they always have 4... ^^
4 years, 4 month... Nezumi should be back 4 days later. X'D 4 hours after returning they should kiss and 4 seconds later they one of them should be inside the other one.
That's my personal timeline. ^^


« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 01:24:05 pm by Ahiku »

listenforthelove

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 01:41:34 pm »
Yeah, I went with a week because according to my calculations (not that I trust those entirely, ahem), it's three days between the Manhunt and Holy Celebration Day. So that would account for the three extra days between Safu's kidnapping and Karan on the bench. But yeah... not long. Not long at all.

I am still trying to wrap my head around this, haha. Elyurias hatching and all happened pretty fast then, too, actually. I always figured it would take a little longer... well at least Safu hasn't suffered super long. (I'm still throwing stuff in anger about her fate, but hey.)

I'm with you on the 6 months: Beyond did say "Nezumi and Shion had lived together for less than half a year", but that sounds like it's closer to 5-6 months than 2-3 (or 4 if we're stretching the dates the guide supplied: September 1 for Safu's exchange and December 31 for her kidnapping). Like, usually when someone says 'less than half a year' it means 'almost 6 months but not the full 6'. Otherwise you'd just say something like 4 months, but that could be just me. (I could look up what it says in Japanese just to be all super obnoxious and SUPER SURE about it, so it's going on my list.)


Ahh thanks for replying though, I'd never have noticed that little marker of 'three days' otherwise. (How did I miss that while I did notice that the Mayor is a total loser with his custom coffee cup that keeps his coffee always nice and hot?)

But yes Nezumi should totally be back after 4 days, epilogue and beyond be damned. Someone should just drag him back by his ponytail dang it.
(OK OK I get he needed to leave to work out his issues and everything but did he really have to walk to half a year's distance from No. 6. Did he.)

lawlya

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 01:45:15 pm »
I just thought of something for the question why it's spring when it's December ... Doesn't the Chinese year start somewhere in February or so? Maybe they don't use the Western calendar but rather the Chinese? That would work, wouldn't it? And then, Nezumi and Shion would have had more time in West Block too - because I think they had six months together too ^^"

Another possibility would be that they really start the New Year with the Holy Celebration Day. You know since it's the day No.6 was founded after the catastrophe and all it would make sense to start a new calendar there and arrange the year's around that day ...



I looked it up and according to Wikipedia, the Chinese New Year would fit perfectly:

Quote
Chinese New Year is an important traditional Chinese holiday celebrated at the turn of the Chinese calendar. In China, it is also known as the Spring Festival, the literal translation of the modern Chinese name.
Wikipedia

It appears it's a bit like Eastern - the date changes constantly xD Ah, it's because it's lunisolar ...

listenforthelove

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2014, 02:10:30 pm »
@lawlya: Chinese year would definitely work! The only problem here is that apparently according to the quotes above, there really are only about a week and a half worth of days between Safu's kidnapping and the Holy Celebration Day... no matter how we call the months. So still less time for the boys in the West Block together.

But your idea is very sound - Japanese (and I'm fairly sure Chinese and other languages) doesn't name the months like in English, so December is literally just '12th month'. No. 6's December could be 'our' February by that reasoning, as long as it's the 12th month of the year. And then it's like you suggested, Holy Celebration Day would be the start of their New Year! So then Holy Celebration Day for spring of 2017 would definitely be true. (Especially since historically, Japan has used a lunar calendar like China, so the first month back then doesn't add up to January now: see also wiki.)


That... still doesn't quite explain how it was described as autumn when Shion escaped to the West Block and spring when they came out of the Facility, but okay. XD; Dang it they had six months together! Six months I say! It's short enough as it is.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 02:17:35 pm by listenforthelove »

lawlya

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2014, 03:16:14 pm »
It's only more confusing that it was winter (I guess it was because the weather was cold) when they entered the Correctional Facility but apparently spring when they arrived in No.6. So ... There's a lot that doesn't add up. And you can get full six months for them if you just assume that the time between 'Shion coming to the West Block' and 'Safu being kidnapped' is more than you originally assumed ... though the guide probably states a time span, doesn't it? But maybe it wasn't even September when Shion was kidnapped but rather August? It was warm, wasn't it? Maybe the end of August ... Though honestly, I always thought it was already October when he met Nezumi again because I got the feeling of fall and don't know what gave me that idea at all ...

listenforthelove

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2014, 03:31:29 pm »
Yeah, it's specifically stated to be winter several times, but well, they also state spring was late, so... it could happen in a couple of days, I guess? Nezumi and Shion were mostly underground or otherwise occupied to really notice the weather changing.

But no, you're right about fall; it's stated in volume 1 that the sky is a 'clear blue autumn sky' when Shion is taken by the bureau officials and thus later on meets Nezumi again.
Plus, I don't want to hammer down 'BUT THE GUIDE SAYS' too much, but it was written later, so I'd assume it was written looking back on the series, and Asano is listed as the only author of the guide, so you know, 'canonically' and all... Anyway, the guide says (here goes) Safu goes on exchange in September, which is two days after they find the body in the park; Shion gets taken the next day, so Safu goes on exchange the day after that. Whiiich means we can't stretch her kidnapping in December much further than 4 months total. (assuming September 1 - December 31).

... I'm starting to think 'spring at last' is more symbolic than anything XD;
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:34:56 pm by listenforthelove »

lawlya

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2014, 05:23:52 pm »
Okay ... As good as it would fit (September is fall) if there's so less time from Safu's kidnapping to the Holy Celebration Day then it's kinda ... odd to have spring in January - and late at that xD Maybe it's the climate ... it's never stated where No.6 is located and I think the novels say that the climate changed rapidly after the wars and everything.

Ahiku

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 05:52:14 pm »
Yeah... maybe it really is like that.
December is gone, old year is gone - BAM - new year and spring withing 3 days. Just because of the climatic change.

It's not the real but a sci-fi world after all, so it could be possible. Short winters, long summers.
Ah, but isn't No. 6 able to regulate the climatic conditions withing the city walls?
So, maybe they really have another definition of season, and it's more like January, February, March = spring, April, May, June = summer, July, August, September = autumn, October, November, December = winter.

When Safu came back she was sitting on a bench in front of a blooming flower meadow (in the anime)... in December! I mean she came back, said good-bye to her grandma and then visited Karan, I don't think she took weeks to do so. And also Karan... just look here: http://mangafox.me/manga/no_6/v03/c010/22.html
Ah and here even more flowers... http://mangafox.me/manga/no_6/v03/c010/22.html
The trees have leaves, the flowers bloom and everything is f*cked up. ^^

But since they are wearing coats, it seems to be at least a bit chilly, but not like a "real" winter in West Block would be. I guess they never had snow within the city walls.
Ok, it's just getting more confusing. @_@ But maybe it's really like that. They "generate" extenuated seasons and a new year starts after the Holy celebration, and that's also the day when spring is about to come, more flowers and blossoms... harvest in summer and autumn and then winter so that the trees can regenrate.

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2014, 06:10:25 pm »
That could be the reason. While reading your explanation, I remembered that Shion once stated that he didn't know the biting cold he experienced in the West Block since No.6 regulated the climate inside the walls or something ... So maybe they really generate those seasons to fit the Holy Celebration Day ... maybe it was still winter in West Block ... Would mean that Nezumi stayed quite a long time with Karan and Shion when he left in spring - the real spring, that is.

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2014, 08:10:51 pm »
@Ahiku: ah, that is a very good point! Yeah, at least in Chronos pretty much every single thing is regulated, and we know that the Forest Park is managed on microscale. It's reasonable to assume in that context that they'd somehow change the seasons so that spring would collide with Holy Celebration Day.

@lawlya: ah, the sentence in volume 9 ran like this:
Quote
Spring was coming. A late spring was starting to arrive in the West Block.
So that's specifically the West Block... ****, I was hoping Nezumi had indeed spent quite a while with Shion and Karan. I had the feeling it was about a week, but I checked beyond again and there's no mention of how long he stayed. Hmm. Then I'm going with your theory of Nezumi staying for quite a while, that sounds much nicer.


Dang. I think all we can say about seasons for sure is that we didn't see summer in the story XD;

Ahiku

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2014, 05:59:29 am »
Normally, Shion's birthday should be in summer. XD
But well, when spring really starts in January, September is no late summer. But well it's always green there. o.o

Ah, I wonder... if they really have snow in the West Block. I mean there's snow in the anime ending. When they bury Inukashi's uncle, they say that the ground is frozen. But we don't have snow in anime and manga, even though it's winter.

Hmm...maybe No. 6 is in the subtropics... (Ok, I guess it's more like some kind of border between subtropics and temperate zone.)
Quote
Eight months of the year within the subtropics have an average temperature at or above 10 C (50.0 F), with their coldest month averaging between 2 and 13 C (35.6 and 55.4 F).
Or it's a fluent passage between subtropics and temperate zone.
No. 6 regulates the temperatures, so it's not too hot... The Mao people lived there and I guess it's really hard to survive in a forest when the winters are long and really cold.

Ah, and Shion says:
Quote
September 7, 2013 was my twelfth birthday. On this day, a tropical low pressure-system, or hurricane, that had developed a week ago off the southwestern area of the North Pacific Ocean, made its way north, gathering power, until it hit us directly in the city of No. 6.
(Shouldn't it be a Taifun? XD Wikipedia says:
Quote
A typhoon is a mature tropical cyclone that develops in the western part of the North Pacific Ocean between 180 and 100E. This region is referred to as the Northwestern Pacific Basin,[1] and is the most active tropical cyclone basin on Earth, accounting for almost one-third of the world's annual tropical cyclones.

But well, whatever... it's a tropical storm, Shion also mentioned it.)

Then, we could also consider Karan's garden...
Quote
My mother preferred small trees over flowers, and through her enthusiastic planting of almond, camellia and maple trees all over the place, our yard had grown into a small grove.

Almond
Quote
There are approximately 128 species, most of which are native to Asia,[4] with a number also appearing in Europe, northern Africa, and North America.
-> moderate climate is ok... but normally they like warmth...
Camellia
They are endemic to Eastern Asia...So the origin is in warm countries... But there are also types you can plant in a moderate climate... But I think they also prefer warmth.
Maple Tree
Quote
There are approximately 128 species, most of which are native to Asia,[4] with a number also appearing in Europe, northern Africa, and North America.
The same thing... o.o

So when you consider a tropical storm and plants who rather like it warm than too cold, even if a little bit of cold is okay. (Unless it's not freezing for a very long time...)

Quote
In the centre of the city there was an enormous forest park that took up more than a sixth of the city's total area. In it, one could experience the seasonal changes and interact with the hundreds of species of small animals and insects that inhabited it.

Maybe it's not even thaaaat cold in West Block. I think it's colder than in No. 6, definitely and Shion isn't used to it. But even if you don't have freezing temperatures, I think people can freeze to death when they don't have a place to go and when they are also starving.
--
Quote
So that's specifically the West Block... ****, I was hoping Nezumi had indeed spent quite a while with Shion and Karan. I had the feeling it was about a week, but I checked beyond again and there's no mention of how long he stayed. Hmm. Then I'm going with your theory of Nezumi staying for quite a while, that sounds much nicer.

Ah, I also thought it wasn't that long. o.o But well...maybe it was one month. He had serious injuries after all and I think Karan has enough maternal feelings to tell him: "No, sunshine, you will stay here until you're completey ok! And don't tell me you're okay, I have 16 years of experience being a mother! *grabs his shoulder*" Nezumi: AHHH Q_Q Okay, Mom...Ma'am! 

listenforthelove

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Re: Timeline in No. 6 - help?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2014, 06:30:37 am »
... reminder to self: get offline after 1 AM. Seriously. DUH OF COURSE SEPTEMBER IS LATE SUMMER HOW DID I FORGET. Your forgiveness is appreciated.

@Ahiku: I have no idea what the Japanese said (can't check right now), but I suspect it was typhoon indeed if only because it's the Japanese word for a tropical storm, haha. Translator's choice perhaps? Basically the same thing anyway, just dependent on region.

Wow, you really went into depth with this with all the trees and stuff! That's great, and very interesting. All I could figure out was that I still have no idea where No. 6 is, except that it's probably not south of the equator (as Rikiga tried to sell Inukashi -shudder- by mentioning skin like from the southern lands or something), and maybe not North- or South-America either because the Man in the Lab Coat spoke about those distantly (or at least mentioned something about bugs there, but not 'and here'. Gotta dash, so I'll pull out the novels later to double-check). So it could very easily still be Japan - Japan has different climates depending on where you are in the country, though, so yeah.

And you're right, cold is also relative. If you're raised to think 15 C is cold, then you'll pick up a winter coat much sooner than someone who is raised to think -10 C is just peachy, so to speak, and having no place to stay and hunger definitely won't help against freezing.

Nezumi definitely had to recover from his wounds, you're right. GOOD that means he stays longer let's go with that << (I think your fanfic leaked into my headcanon a bit as I started to assume accelerated healing powers, but I don't think those are canon? Not explicitly, anyway. I still have thoughts about people having some extra powers in No. 6 but that's for another thread.)
... nezumi slipping up and calling Karan his mother is something I NEED.